beating the ultra loose game
 

This weekend 2/4 in Shakopee, MN. They have 9 tables running, with a lonnnnnng waiting list. Almost every table i was involved in on the weekend was almost identical.

6-9 players seeing every flop.
5-6 players seeing every turn.
4-6 players seeing the river.

i understand how to beat 2-3 loose players at a table, but when the entire table is calling backdoor str8/flush draws, middle, low pair, or any over card, how do you win in these games?

currently i cant get this hand out of my head..

im sb with K[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 6 callers to me, i check because i dont think raising from the blinds does much good as far as getting people to fold out, especially in this game.

bb checks 7 of us see the flop.

T[img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

im thinkign SWEEEEET

i check, checks to late position who bets, the one player between us calls, i raise. bb folds, utg calls cold, one other calls cold, and lp bettor calls.

turn is 7[img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

i think.. even sweeter all those people callign with 8s are going to be sucked in.

i fire, get raised by the next guy, 3rd party folds, original lp bettor calls 2 bets cold. i 3bet, get 4 bet. lp folds, i cap at 5 bets, and called naturally.

river 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

i bet, he raises, i call.

turns over 97o :\

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

when the entire table is calling backdoor str8/flush draws, middle, low pair, or any over card, how do you win in these games?

Stange. I always ask how a good player can't beat these games. The simple answer is to value bet a lot.

I don't know why you are complaining about this hand. You're opponent had a hand worth continuing on with on every post-flop street.

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

im not anywhere near a good player, or atleast i dont consider myself one. i play very tight preflop suited connected 45 or higher, pocket pairs, or suited one gap in late position or over 10 to call. only raise AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ preflop, unless coming in UTG then i raise with anything i might call with.

and calling 2 bets on the flop cold with bottom pair [censored] kicker, and capping the turn with bottom 2 when any 8 makes a straight is what frustrates me, not if he woulda called me down and raise the river. or perhaps 1 raise on the turn.

anyhow thanks for the advice, anyone else?

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

You mentioned raising to drive people out. In games like this, that part of your game becomes ineffective. I think of it as essentially having one less tool to work with. To compensate for this, I think you have to get money in the pot at every opportunity when you think you have the best hand. Since they call with garbage, take every opportunity to make them pay. It's straightforward, non-tricky poker for the most part.

The hand you posted is the type of hand you dream about in a game like this. You got the money in the pot when you should have, but it just didn't work out. Unfortunately, runner runner beat you. [img]/forums/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

You can also search through the older posts for more threads about beating games like this.

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

The first time a player encounters a game like this, it can be bewildering and confusing. You know that your opponents are terrible, but you are losing. You start to question your own sanity, and wonder why the things you usually do to win aren't working. A game like this will also test a player's tolerance for bad beats. After runner runner whatever beats you a few times, how will you respond?

That's why he's complaining.

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

I have played in these games at Canterbury before also. With that many people involved, be prepared for large bankroll swings. Pots can be 30+ BBs at this game. You don't (and won't) drag many, but one or two pots make a huge difference in your stack. At this limit with these types of players it is pretty hard to put players on a hand. Also, I want to second what another poster stated. If your intention on raising is to limit the field- forget it because it isn't going to happen. I swear you could turn your cards face up and raise and you will still get worse hands to call.

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

These games, are easy to beat, but your progress won't be in a straight line. On this hand, there was a 24 big bet pot, and your opponent hit his 4 outer on the river to hit it. That was almost a $100 swing, and these hands will happen both ways, all the time. On the day that you get a couple of extra wins, you will have a massive amount of chips, (I once won over $600 in a 2-4 game) and on the day when you lose those swings, you will end up in the parking lot muttering to yourself. Last night, I was playing 4-8, and won a little over $100, but I won one pot that was over $140 preflop. If that hand goes the other way, I don't have a winning session, and with 7 players in, regardless of my hand, I am not going that hand much more often than 1 out of 3 times.

You want to play hands that will make big hands, and when you do, play them to get the most money in the pot. Pocket pairs, especially for their value in making sets, suited connectors, and big suited cards are the cards you want to play.

On the hand in question, I would probably have raised out of the big blind preflop.

After the flop, I would have bet out, instead of checkraising. You want to build a big pot when you flop the nuts, so betting and three betting, or betting, calling a raise, and checkraising the turn will probably build a bigger pot, than checkraising the flop.

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

i wouldnt say the opponent played i well on the flop. cold calling 2 in this spot with a low pair, crap kicker isnt a good play.

though it doesnt change the fact that you want him to call in this spot...

b

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

"im sb with KQ 6 callers to me, i check because i dont think raising from the blinds does much good as far as getting people to fold out, especially in this game."

you should explore other reasons for raising. this is an easy raise preflop. youre not trying to fold anyone out.

b

Re: beating the ultra loose game
 

You're opponent had a hand worth continuing on with on every post-flop street.

Does everyone agree with this statement? I don't.