What Hand did Teddy KGB have at the end of Rounders

[rdu $teve]

Now that is a damn good question. Those legs......

[THE OUTLAW]

I havent bothered reading all 50 posts here so I dont know if this has already been written but...

I remember reading on a another forum years ago that someone with good VCR or DVD technology paused the film at the moment that Teddy throws his cards and it was clear to see that he had pocket TT. Now for filming the movie if the cards werent intended to be flashed I guess the producers could just give Teddy any two random cards because it really wouldnt matter. But strategically I suppose a flopped set of TT makes sense. Just my two cents.

THE OUTLAW

[spentrent]

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Except this time, Damon prevailed and has wisened up to have what it takes.

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I'd kill for the wisdom that allows me to flop a straight! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[schroedy]

The whole scene is weak from a poker perspective. AA is the only hand that makes any sense from a dramatic arc POV. TT makes some sense pokerwise. All other weaker hands (well anything weaker than a set) do not justify all-in on the end as Mike can easily be on 66 or 77 and trapping.

Is the all-in a bluff? No. Teddy thinks he has the best hand, clearly.

If it's a value bet, what does he expect Mike to call with? Why is he betting all in against what he believes to be a busted draw? Isn't the play to bait with something smallish, or a check, induce a bluff or a bluff raise then push? Even if it's a set of Aces, I think KGB did not pay enough attention to how he can milk even more out of this hand. KGB seems to be oblivious to what Mike might hold here, even more so than Mike was in the opening scene.

To me the only hand for KGB that makes sense is the 2d nuts.

To whoever it was that suggested that AA would be played stronger preflop, I doubt it heads up in a cash game. (I too thought that KGB made a small raise preflop, but either way doesn't matter.)

Unless the writers screwed it all up by not thinking about it and just trying to replay Chan/Siedel without thinking about how the situation in a heads up freeze out cash game is MUCH different than the final two at the WSOP (main differences being flat versus climbing blinds, and limited versus (practically) unlimited bankrolls).

In the new collectors edition, Hellmuth (about whom I rarely say anything good) makes a number of good points about the poker scenes and things to think about in connection with them, but he says nothing about this one. Hellmuth, Chan and Moneymaker all seemed to feel that Mike was "playing for his life" but that never made any sense to me. Why would KGB waste a great talent that could obviously be influenced to play something less than straight up (numerous scenes of cheating with Worm and not just getting up a leaving)?

[AndyS]

As for the 'full circle' reason for KGB having aces i don't buy it because if that were the theme we would have seen his cards.

The OP though is a pretty detailed analysis and the most intelligent theory to boot out of all these posts.

The only problem i have with it though, is that KGB never once backs off thinking MD might be slowplaying. KGB is portrayed as a wily and aggressive player and would have to stop and think about what MD would have to call the overbet on the flop. KGB then gave Damon 2-1 odds by betting the pot on the turn knowing a drawing hand can't call and making a hand with 2 pair a probable underdog. So when the ace hits the river I guess he could bet it all as he did but why would he, when a made straight could be slowplaying all the way? I guess AA is a very plausible holding and he just played them balls to the wall trying to scare MD away the whole time. I would say he could also be holding TT, 66 or 77. A strong hand all the way through like a set would be plausible as he may be thinking that an overbet like 2000 would keep MD in by smelling of not wanting a call.

anyways that's my 2 cents on it and i can't believe i just spent 5 minutes typing about the possible holding of a fictional character [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

andy

[bobbyi]

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Of course the ONLY real important question is why Mikey (Matt Damon) didn't bang Petra (Famke Janssen) when she came over to his apartment to collect is debt...

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It's explained in the filmmakers' commentary track on the dvd. When they wrote the script, they were imagining her not being hot at all. The casting didn't match what they had envisioned for her character.

[HTML Samurai]

That's what I thought...

[kmvenne]

This is easy to decide. On my nice 60" TV (thank you UB fishies) I make out two tens flying around. Either this is a freak accident, or Teddy had two tens. Odds are the latter.

[college kid]

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Funny I just had this discussion with my wife. I think he had Ace Ten. He flopped top pair top kicker and read Damon for the draw.

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What draw was out there?? Did MD raise preflop with 54?

[Kaz The Original]

Nope. 85.