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#31
01-12-2005, 11:36 AM
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It\'s hard to do
I agree. I am a computer scientist and can judge the feasiblity of a project such as this.
To collude undetected would be very hard. It would take so much work that it's not worth it. There's so much more opportunity in creating software that people will pay for. This sort of project would be very low on the to-do list of any software developer. The main reason is collusion (without being detected) gives a very small edge. The colluders can't collude too much because it will become obvious very quickly. I'm sure the sites monitor how you play your hand, who you play with etc. Collusion is a big threat to their business model so they take it seriously. As with most things, to make really good money, you're better off doing something more ethical. If you make big money at collusion, you will get caught. 
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#32
01-12-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: Is this legal?
I didn't realize that I would get so many critical responses when submitting a post that was merely meant to satisfy a question that had been nagging me. First, I don't play online poker, so how is this post an attempt to deflect attention away from me? Second, I didn't believe this guy either. It was a discussion taking place in a bar with alcoholic beverages being consumed. I went to his house a few days later and saw it for myself. He was on Party Poker btw. He had a pretty impressive setup. I know enough about computers to ask about the ISP address issue. He didn't go into details but said he had several ISP addresses. I never asked him how much he actually made, didn't figure I'd get a truthful answer. The bottom line is, I wanted to know if this was legal, and sought this forum for an answer.
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#33
01-12-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: Is this legal?
Few comments here. There's some of this going on, and you need to keep your eyes open for it.
This is not a major problem though and nothing to get alarmed about, and these games are going to be noticibly tight. They do get caught occasionally but just open up new accounts and they are back in business. As tracking software gets more sophisticated, the hope is to catch these people sooner and more often, to put a stop to this. In order for the sites to be motivated enough to police this to the level that they should, we need to be vigilent and report and express our concerns promptly. I was thinking about Jethro from the Beverly Hillbillies trying this. It's a 10 person table and he's all 10 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Look at all the hands I'm winning Uncle Jed! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] KC
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#34
01-12-2005, 02:15 PM
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Re: Is this legal?
[ QUOTE ]
I've played in a few live ring games in which this one guy has always lost terribly to me. Saw him out at a local bar one night and we struck up a conversation. I'd had a few beers and basically told him his playing skills were lacking. [/ QUOTE ] Does this mean he's also lacking in collusion skills? I call bull also.
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#35
01-12-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: It\'s hard to do
Think about it. What if you have 5 players (more?) sitting at a table. Knowing 10 cards, you don't even NEED to use normal collusion techniques. The fact that you know 10 cards instead of 10, gives you a HUGE advantage. Several players stay in (the ones with the best chances of winning the hand given the board), and of course they won't win every hand, but they would know enough to know what possible hands the other players MIGHT have, which gives them a VERY close approximation to their true winning percentage.
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#37
01-12-2005, 03:45 PM
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Re: It\'s hard to do
If you know 10 cards instead of 2, you have a big advantage. However, this doesn't easily translate into making big money.
The reason you don't make big money is that you cannot act on this information very often without getting caught. So what at first glance appears to be a huge edge, really is a small edge because you can only use it rarely. If a human player can detect or get a sense for collusion happening during his game without knowing his cheating opponents' hole cards, then a computer with perfect information of the situation certainly can. A simple policy is to suspect all winning players as potential cheats and give their games the once over. The play of a cheating colluding scum-bag will deviate from the play of a normal winning player. This sets off a red flag and the cheating son-of-a-whore's hand history then gets more scrutiny from more resource intensive algorithms. Finally, a human can look at the supect games and come to a conclusion. My gut says that it would be very hard and very tricky to setup a colluding network that goes undetected. To set one up that gets detected after a month or two: maybe not so hard.
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#39
01-12-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: It\'s hard to do
I think you're overestimating Party's willingness to actively catch cheaters. Why should they want to? It doesn't matter to them, rake is rake. I would imagine the only time Party DOES catch people is when other people complain. I'm not talking about collusion in the traditional sense. Knowing hole cards is enough, and I don't think the human opponents will have any idea what's going on, it's not like they're trapping opponents in a raising war and then folding.
As I said, it'd be a a bit complex to set up correctly, but I think if you could do it, it'd be very profitable for quite a long time.
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#40
01-12-2005, 03:59 PM
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Re: Is this legal?
[ QUOTE ]
You're looking at it the entirely wrong way. [/ QUOTE ] No. I'm not. I actually know what I'm talking about. You have no idea how the software for these sites works. Again, I point out that your statements lack credibility. You failed to answer any of the legitimate points made by those who clearly have more knowledge than you about this issue. By the way, it's fun to MAKE words BIG to add EMPHASIS.
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