Two ugly b$tches

pokerjunky · #1 10-26-2005, 05:32 PM

I think this is one of those not so standard hands although I could be wrong. My reads are pretty slim since I'm 4-tabling so all I have are stats.

The original PF raiser was 20/16/2.1
BB was 7.6/5/1.6

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, Hero.....

krimson · #2 10-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Aggressive raiser's capping range. AA-JJ, AK-AQ, AJs? Remember just because he raises lots of hands doesn't mean he goes wild capping.

Your behind the better part of his range. This doesn't even factor in that if he has JJ, or TT, there are 3 other villians that could have an Ace here.

I fold this, and I think it's a fairly easy fold to make.

#3 10-26-2005, 05:50 PM

I raise, I want to know RIGHT NOW whether to proceed. I think AK or AQ slowplays this. If I get folds, great. If I get calls, I slow down and fold to a turn bet.

LLL

Borodog · #4 10-26-2005, 05:52 PM

If his pfr is 5%, he's probably not capping tens. You have to cross your fingers and hope you're looking at JJ or the case queens. And of course there's 3 others in the hand.

Fold.

#5 10-26-2005, 06:24 PM

I fully see your point in folding. If it were ONE ace on the flop, I would fold. The combo of 2 aces, and the fact that a lot of low limit players will slowplay this monster if they have AK, or AQ, tell me a raise could be good. I also like the fact that the PF raiser bet this flop. I would fold if the bet came from one of the limpers. I can chase off a few of the hands that might be better.

Yako · #6 10-26-2005, 06:35 PM

Oh yeah, and one more thing... People that cap the flop rarely slowplay... Think of it. What happens if he slowplays? You INSTANTLY put him on AK/AA and fold. By betting out he collects more bets from you, and if you raise him, well, POW! 3bet and even more bets for him.

Also, what do you do if you raise and he calls, then checks to you on the turn? You gonna bet then? How do you respond to a raise? It's an expensive line you're taking.

#7 10-26-2005, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, and one more thing... People that cap the flop rarely slowplay... Think of it. What happens if he slowplays? You INSTANTLY put him on AK/AA and fold. By betting out he collects more bets from you, and if you raise him, well, POW! 3bet and even more bets for him.

Also, what do you do if you raise and he calls, then checks to you on the turn? You gonna bet then? How do you respond to a raise? It's an expensive line you're taking.

[/ QUOTE ]

So If he doesn't bet, I should put him on a monster. If he does bet I should put him on a monster? So, no matter what, he has a monster? you lost me somewhere in there.

As far as folding out other hands. I am looking to fold out weak aces coming from the BB and UTG+2. After that, I assume I am WA/WB. I check the turn if checked to me (unless while live, I catch a read).

toss · #8 10-26-2005, 06:53 PM

Are you talking about making someone fold ace-rag on this board? Because theres no way in hell thats happening.

Yako · #9 10-26-2005, 06:55 PM

Weak aces will NEVER fold here.
But seriously, if capper decides to c/r the flop, what do you put him on? KQo?

Yako · #10 10-26-2005, 06:32 PM

What are you hoping to fold that beats you? About the only thing that you can fold out is KK, and I really doubt that KK gets folded on this board. Otherwise, if capper has JJ, you want him betting his chips away to you, because he's very likely to fold to aggression.

As for the other players in the hand, they also are either WA/WB you. If they have an Ace, you won't get them to fold either, and otherwise they have 3 outs at best (if they have a K), in which case you want them to stick around for the times where capper has AK.

So yeah, raising isn't very good, because it folds out hands we want to keep in, and it costs you more when you are behind, which is most of the time.

I prefer folding this hand like a lot of the other posters said. You're behind too often to stay in. Although, this is one of the few cases where fold>call>raise. If you're gonna stay in, you gotta call, raising isn't gonna do anything.