Two ugly b$tches
 

I think this is one of those not so standard hands although I could be wrong. My reads are pretty slim since I'm 4-tabling so all I have are stats.

The original PF raiser was 20/16/2.1
BB was 7.6/5/1.6

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero.....

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

Aggressive raiser's capping range. AA-JJ, AK-AQ, AJs? Remember just because he raises lots of hands doesn't mean he goes wild capping.

Your behind the better part of his range. This doesn't even factor in that if he has JJ, or TT, there are 3 other villians that could have an Ace here.

I fold this, and I think it's a fairly easy fold to make.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

I raise, I want to know RIGHT NOW whether to proceed. I think AK or AQ slowplays this. If I get folds, great. If I get calls, I slow down and fold to a turn bet.

LLL

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

If his pfr is 5%, he's probably not capping tens. You have to cross your fingers and hope you're looking at JJ or the case queens. And of course there's 3 others in the hand.

Fold.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

I fully see your point in folding. If it were ONE ace on the flop, I would fold. The combo of 2 aces, and the fact that a lot of low limit players will slowplay this monster if they have AK, or AQ, tell me a raise could be good. I also like the fact that the PF raiser bet this flop. I would fold if the bet came from one of the limpers. I can chase off a few of the hands that might be better.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

What are you hoping to fold that beats you? About the only thing that you can fold out is KK, and I really doubt that KK gets folded on this board. Otherwise, if capper has JJ, you want him betting his chips away to you, because he's very likely to fold to aggression.

As for the other players in the hand, they also are either WA/WB you. If they have an Ace, you won't get them to fold either, and otherwise they have 3 outs at best (if they have a K), in which case you want them to stick around for the times where capper has AK.

So yeah, raising isn't very good, because it folds out hands we want to keep in, and it costs you more when you are behind, which is most of the time.

I prefer folding this hand like a lot of the other posters said. You're behind too often to stay in. Although, this is one of the few cases where fold&gt;call&gt;raise. If you're gonna stay in, you gotta call, raising isn't gonna do anything.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

Given the pot size you are going to at least need to peel the turn IMO. Furthermore the preflop raiser/capper has a pfr of 16 so I'm assuming 88/99-AA are well within his capping range and thus I'd actually don't mind trying to showdown this hand cheaply, while at the same time ready to get out if others (namely the mousy BB) start to show some aggresion.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

Oh yeah, and one more thing... People that cap the flop rarely slowplay... Think of it. What happens if he slowplays? You INSTANTLY put him on AK/AA and fold. By betting out he collects more bets from you, and if you raise him, well, POW! 3bet and even more bets for him.

Also, what do you do if you raise and he calls, then checks to you on the turn? You gonna bet then? How do you respond to a raise? It's an expensive line you're taking.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

Oh yeah I should add that we should not be worried about protecting our hand as at most a hand has 3 outs against us. The decision in my mind is close between calling and folding the turn UI, with raising the flop being the worst choice by far.

Re: Two ugly b$tches
 

Having read your previous post, I now think that calling down is the way to go, especially if you think that he might be playing 99 and TT this way too. In that case, let him give you his money. But if at any time someone besides the capper shows some sign of strength, I'm bailing. Not too sure what I do if a K pops out along the way though.