Oh the shame....

benkath1 · #1 09-27-2005, 02:20 PM

SB was 17/10, not too agg not too pass. UTG+2 about the same.

I think I had gutshot odds the whole way, but the turn I hated. Is it worth a bet? If I'm check raised is it worth a call? If the river is a brick, wtf do I do.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (13.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero ????

deception5 · #2 09-27-2005, 02:34 PM

At this point SB's most likely hand looks like 99-JJ. And UTG+2 looks like a missed ace trying to thin the field or a similar pair afraid of a higher one. I think there's a good chance you have the best hand now so I would bet. This isn't a good board for SB to be check/raising even if he has a set of queens. I would also bet the river, but it depends what kind of response your bet receives.

That being said, I wouldn't overestimate the gutshot, there's a good chance you'll split with it or lose to 66, A6s, 76s, etc, depending on your reads of MP1/MP2.

#3 09-27-2005, 03:45 PM

SB is acting like he was pumping an OESD on flop. I'd shell out a bet here. Even if check-raised... with the pot that huge, you can't fold your gutshot and TPTK on the turn. As long as the river isn't a 6 and it's only one bet to me, I'd definitely call the river.

edit: wait... SB 3-bet pre-flop. Duh. For all we know he has an overpair or AK then. I'd still bet the turn and call a raise.

SlantNGo · #4 09-27-2005, 04:24 PM

Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

car ramrod · #5 09-27-2005, 04:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Suited plus cold callers = call
unsuited even w/ cold callers = fold

#6 09-27-2005, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not time to grunch, but I was gonna say fold. You're getting 5:1 to call this against two tags. I might just fold.

trainslayer · #7 09-27-2005, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but no way in hell do I fold here. In fact I woulda capped it. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Eeegah · #8 09-27-2005, 11:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but no way in hell do I fold here. In fact I woulda capped it. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you capping this?

benkath1 · #9 09-27-2005, 11:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but no way in hell do I fold here. In fact I woulda capped it. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you capping this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm interested in this too. I like EEgahs line about smooth calling to find out how much UTG+1 really likes his hand. I don't mind playing this in a capped pot, but If someone else is doing the capping, I've got more info on his hand than he has on mine.

trainslayer · #10 09-28-2005, 01:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone fold pre-flop or do the cold-callers pad this pot enough to make it a worthwhile call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't read the rest of the responses yet, but no way in hell do I fold here. In fact I woulda capped it. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are you capping this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm interested in this too. I like EEgahs line about smooth calling to find out how much UTG+1 really likes his hand. I don't mind playing this in a capped pot, but If someone else is doing the capping, I've got more info on his hand than he has on mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

in all honesty, because i'm an idiot who likes to fly by the seat of my pants without thinking through what I'm doing. Thus the ... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

However, I've been playing 6-max exclusively for about a month and I wasn't really thinking about the fact that this was full.

And I'm not sure that the smooth call accomplishes the task of telling us how much UTG1 likes his hand. You ever see someone raise AA, KK, AKs or some other potential monster and then just call a reraise and THEN start the war on the flop or even the turn? I have and everytime I see that smooth call now bells go off. Did he just get a bucket of cold water in his lap or is he fixin' ta hit we w/the fire hose when I bet into him. AQs IS a potential monster preflop and I just ain't inclined to slow down preflop.

I've been doing a little more studying and a little less playing here lately. This topic just went on the list of things to study.