How to play this nut flush draw

In my local 1-2NL cash game I ran upon this hand. First I'll preface everything by saying that people in this game can play any two cards limping in and sometimes w/ raises.

anyway, I was in LP and limped w/ K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] after several limpers. I know, bad play but I digress. BB raises to 10straight, all but one calls including me. 6way pot. typical preflop. So $62 in pot(sb folded on raise).

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Super tight player checks, but obviously hit. Loose player makes it $15 and 2 callers, then I call and then tight player raises $50. I put him on AQ as he would of raised $100 w/ QQ or AA. Original bettor folds to me, one person left to act behind me who is obviously folding. $173 in pot including $50 raise.

I have $183 left in front of me and raiser has 3-4hundred. What's the proper play.

[Percussion]

call, then check/call, or check/fold turn if the bet is too big to get the right pot odds

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
In my local 1-2NL cash game I ran upon this hand. First I'll preface everything by saying that people in this game can play any two cards limping in and sometimes w/ raises.

anyway, I was in LP and limped w/ K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] after several limpers. I know, bad play but I digress. BB raises to 10straight, all but one calls including me. 6way pot. typical preflop. So $62 in pot(sb folded on raise).

Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Super tight player checks, but obviously hit. Loose player makes it $15 and 2 callers, then I call and then tight player raises $50. I put him on AQ as he would of raised $100 w/ QQ or AA. Original bettor folds to me, one person left to act behind me who is obviously folding. $173 in pot including $50 raise.

I have $183 left in front of me and raiser has 3-4hundred. What's the proper play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either your pot calculations are incorrect or your description of the action is incorrect. If you will make the needed corrections the right decision will become more clear.

[Leo Bello]

SB 1 + BB 2, five limpers 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2, SB completes +1 total until now. 14. BB raises to 10. five people enter so 48 more. Until now 48 + 14 = 62.
On flop 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 50 = 62 +110 = 172... you are right, the pot has 172 instead of 173...

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
SB 1 + BB 2, five limpers 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2, SB completes +1 total until now. 14. BB raises to 10. five people enter so 48 more. Until now 48 + 14 = 62.
On flop 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 50 = 62 +110 = 172... you are right, the pot has 172 instead of 173...

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to pick nits but you also wrote there was yet another player behind you left to act after the tight players raise although he was also likely to fold. This information does not make the numbers add up correctly which is why I asked for clarification.

EDITED BELOW:

Heck, you aren't even the initial poster!! Why am I listening to you? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
SB 1 + BB 2, five limpers 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2, SB completes +1 total until now. 14. BB raises to 10. five people enter so 48 more. Until now 48 + 14 = 62.
On flop 15 + 15 + 15 + 15 + 50 = 62 +110 = 172... you are right, the pot has 172 instead of 173...

[/ QUOTE ]
thanks Leo for the correction. 172 is correct as is your account of action.

to finish the account...

Well I made the donkey move. I went all in over the top. I percieved that because of his tightness that if I went all in on the flop he might of folded, perhaps 40% of the time expecting a set. He even berated himself saying that I had a set. After much deliberation he called.

I've been beating myself up for this move ever since I did it and since no one has offered this as a possibe move, I guess I'm right for beating myself up, lol.

thanks guys for the advice.

Did he actually turn over that AQ you put him on?

If you really put him on AQ the only hands beating him were exactly AA, QQ and 88 which can only be dealt 18 ways. No matter what I would call that all in bet in his position holding top two pair. Even with the diamond draw on board he's a favorite to win with his two pair and the pot odds more than justify his call considering the small number of hands that were beating him at the time. It had to be fairly obvious that you weren't holding either QQ or AA since there were so many PF limpers and you did nothing to raise people off it. If he was holding AQ he knew you were beat or, at the worst, dead even.

Cyber, yes he turned the AQ as I knew. I read this guy like a book, which is why i put the move on him. He won't invest any money in a pot unless he has a lock on it, and won't put over 50 in a pot unless he has the nutz. that's why i did the move. He made the right call, and i made a poor play. he probably wouldn't put me on QQ or AA very likely as that would be the case A or Q. he put me on 88 and was convinced i had it and asked to see the snowmen when he called.

it was the wrong move on my part for good reasons. If I was to do the play over again I'd call - check/fold(if no diamond) raise(if diamond) on the riv.

[WhiteWolf]

Well, if your estimate that he would fold 40% of the time to your push was correct, then your play was actually a good move. By my calculations, the semibluff push is +EV all the way down to about a 15% chance that he folds. The only question is if your folding probablity estimate was correct, and that is of course highly read-dependent and impossible to accurately specify.

[spaminator101]

easy call