AK, worth getting stacked?

jkkkk · #1 07-13-2005, 01:14 PM

villain is classic TAG, not too agressive though 2.5 pfr, 3avg ag

Party Poker (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
8 folds.

3 or so limps to Hero who raises to $2, one caller who is UTG+1.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
.
UTG+1 bets $5, I call.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

UTG+1 bets $15, I fold.

I know this line is weak, I think I should of raised the flop to see where I was. Raise to $15?

Laomedon · #2 07-13-2005, 01:17 PM

Stack sizes? I just don't see how you have any information to let you make this fold here... I think this flop needs a raise and, given your read, if you meet substantial resistance by all means fold, I just don't see how you KNOW you're behind in this spot.

soah · #3 07-13-2005, 01:18 PM

You don't have to KNOW you're behind in order for folding to be correct.

wslee00 · #4 07-13-2005, 01:29 PM

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You don't have to KNOW you're behind in order for folding to be correct.

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i don't think what you're saying applies here - hero has AK on an uncoordinated flop (well, unless you hold QT). You better know you're behind, or at least be very certain, if you fold this.

I raise on the flop to $15.

Go_Blue88 · #5 07-13-2005, 01:32 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to KNOW you're behind in order for folding to be correct.

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i don't think what you're saying applies here - hero has AK on an uncoordinated flop (well, unless you hold QT). You better know you're behind, or at least be very certain, if you fold this.

I raise on the flop to $15.

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I agree that you should raise the flop here. Villian could be betting a King with a weak kicker to see where he's at, and when you just called, he decided he was ahead.

jkkkk · #6 07-13-2005, 01:39 PM

Yep, I knew I should of, was just making sure that was the general consensus.

ajmargarine · #7 07-13-2005, 02:08 PM

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I agree that you should raise the flop here. Villian could be betting a King with a weak kicker to see where he's at, and when you just called, he decided he was ahead.

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swolfe · #8 07-13-2005, 02:38 PM

if you're going to fold the turn when nothing has changed, then you should fold the flop. that's not a bad play against a typically passive TAG...you're generally only going to play a big pot with them when you're behind.

jkkkk · #9 07-13-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to fold the turn when nothing has changed, then you should fold the flop. that's not a bad play against a typically passive TAG...you're generally only going to play a big pot with them when you're behind.

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I agree, calling the flop was just plain horrible. I imagine more than half the time he bets into me like this he has AK or better, though i don't think I can justify a fold on the flop, he might call down with a weaker K.

TheWorstPlayer · #10 07-13-2005, 04:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to fold the turn when nothing has changed, then you should fold the flop. that's not a bad play against a typically passive TAG...you're generally only going to play a big pot with them when you're behind.

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This is not true. It is quite possible for someone to be a 'fire one bullet' kinda guy. Meaning you are ahead, say 50% of the time, on the flop, but once he fires again on the turn, you are ahead 0% of the time. Makes call flop, fold turn and perfectly acceptable line. In fact, that is probably how I play this if the guy is tight. Maybe he is betting into me with top pair on the flop. But once I call, I expect him to slow down. Once he's not slowing down, I expect him to have a set or two pair almost all the time here. Obviously no one right answer. I don't really like a flop raise, though. Seems like a no-win situation for you. I would prefer just call, call, call over raising the flop.