Live 6/12 Dream Table

beta1607 · #1 07-06-2005, 05:51 PM

6/12 at Hollywood Park. Played this a couple weeks ago so some details may be a little off.

Table is amazingly loose with 8 of the players calling multiple preflop raises with any two suited and any two connected and most one gappers. Preflop raises get no respect.

7 limpers to me and I get black AA in the BB and check.

flop 459 two [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
checked to the CO who bets SB calls everyone calls

Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Checked to CO who bets, SB calls I raise get 4 callers.

River 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check UTG bets two callers CO raises I fold

I played this session after rereading a section in HEPFAP about loose games. The reason I didn't raise preflop is it wouldn't fold anyone and could make their chasing on later streets more correct. Did I apply the concept correctly?

shant · #2 07-06-2005, 05:53 PM

You raise preflop for value.

beta1607 · #3 07-06-2005, 06:00 PM

I understand raising for value but I guess my question is wouldn't raising preflop bloat the pot and make the fish chasing correct?

meep_42 · #4 07-06-2005, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand raising for value but I guess my question is wouldn't raising preflop bloat the pot and make the fish chasing correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

With 8 people in the pot, it's going to be correct for them to see the river with any two cards that hit the board at all, most of the time.

-d

beta1607 · #5 07-06-2005, 06:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With 8 people in the pot, it's going to be correct for them to see the river with any two cards that hit the board at all, most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point.

The_Curtain · #6 07-06-2005, 06:40 PM

As said above, you have such a huge equity edge that you MUST exploit it pre-flop. In a loose game where many players are playing too many hands and going too far, the're not worried about pot / implied / effective odds, most are there to gamble. If you are against thinking players than there can be an arguement to be made that raising pre-flop will give the proper odds to your opponents to draw to something like an inside or two pair. This is not one of those. Even against thinking players your edge is too large to forgo.

shant · #7 07-06-2005, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand raising for value but I guess my question is wouldn't raising preflop bloat the pot and make the fish chasing correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
They're going to chase correctly or not. Your hand will hold up against the limpers a good percentage of the time. You raise for value. Also, why did you check-call the flop if you were worried about protecting your hand. You should have check-raised the CO if you are worried about fish chasing.

beta1607 · #8 07-06-2005, 06:06 PM

I didn't raise the flop because I was waiting for a big bet street. I thought I had made the right play at the time but have been questioning it a lot and I guess it was not correct.

When would it be correct to apply the concept?

Paxosmotic · #9 07-06-2005, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't raise the flop because I was waiting for a big bet street. I thought I had made the right play at the time but have been questioning it a lot and I guess it was not correct.

When would it be correct to apply the concept?

[/ QUOTE ]
You're referring of course to Two Overpair Hands and giving incorrect odds to draws? There are simply too many bets in this pot to successfully pull that off here. You're just not going to be able to scare anybody on a draw out of this pot, small bet, big bet, or kill bet. It's a great concept but it won't apply here because the pot is too large.

Edit : You asked for when it might be correct to wait until the turn. Look for a smaller pot with a vulnerable hand (aces definitely qualifies). By waiting for a safe turn you effectively cut each draw's odds by half (one card to go instead of two) while at the same time doubling what they must pay to see the river.

TiltsMcFabulous · #10 07-06-2005, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand raising for value but I guess my question is wouldn't raising preflop bloat the pot and make the fish chasing correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your goal in poker is not to make them play incorrectly. Your goal is to make the most money. Fish chase regardless of odds anyways. Raise because every dollar that goes in preflop makes you money, as you are holding the absolute PF nuts and every hand is paying to chase you.

~ Tilts