109s out of sb

27offsooot · #1 05-22-2005, 01:53 AM

BB is TAG, no reads on other two.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls.

River: (11 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Not sure about flop and river. Thoughts appreciated.

Fnord · #2 05-22-2005, 01:59 AM

Perfectly played.

My only thought is that there might be a case for bet/folding the flop because the pot is so small. However, the cold call from MP1 gives you good enough (implied) odds to call one sb planning to check/fold the turn unimproved.

27offsooot · #3 05-22-2005, 02:01 AM

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My only thought is that there might be a case for bet/folding the flop because the pot is so small. However, calling and check/folding the turn unimproved can't bet a big mistake. I play it the same.

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If there wasn't the ccer i was b/fing the flop. I started to hate my river bet after i made it though and I still do. c/c seems bad too (maybe c/f?). But i think betting is the worse of two evils. When in doubt, i seem to bet too much.

Fnord · #4 05-22-2005, 02:03 AM

Edited my original post.

Stack · #5 05-22-2005, 02:22 AM

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I started to hate my river bet after i made it though and I still do. c/c seems bad too (maybe c/f?). But i think betting is the worse of two evils

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I do not see why. Maybe I deserve to...

I do not think folding should be an option here. I like bet/call. I can also live with c/c. But I can fold here. Maybe I'm missing something?

sweetjazz · #6 05-22-2005, 03:57 AM

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I started to hate my river bet after i made it though and I still do. c/c seems bad too (maybe c/f?). But i think betting is the worse of two evils

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not see why. Maybe I deserve to...

I do not think folding should be an option here. I like bet/call. I can also live with c/c. But I can fold here. Maybe I'm missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's two pair was counterfeited on the river. BB's likely hand is now aces up. I'm not folding this for one more bet on the river, so I think a bet/fold line is okay. If BB gets out of line a lot, then check/call is better. This is because you don't want to fold the best hand or put two bets in the pot with a likely losing hand; moreover, if BB is tricky, he's likely to take another stab at the pot when you check.

But against most villains, I think this is an appropriate time for the bet/fold line. (This coming from someone who tries to avoid bet/fold whenever possible.)

Stack · #7 05-22-2005, 04:05 AM

Thanks for your clear explanaition sweetjazz.

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Hero's two pair was counterfeited on the river.

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Well, I need some sleep as I did not realize this.

I agree with the bet/fold line here since checking lets villain bet his good hands for value and check behind with his worse hands.

Thanks again.

27offsooot · #8 05-22-2005, 10:20 AM

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I started to hate my river bet after i made it though and I still do. c/c seems bad too (maybe c/f?). But i think betting is the worse of two evils

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not see why. Maybe I deserve to...

I do not think folding should be an option here. I like bet/call. I can also live with c/c. But I can fold here. Maybe I'm missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero's two pair was counterfeited on the river. BB's likely hand is now aces up. I'm not folding this for one more bet on the river, so I think a bet/fold line is okay. If BB gets out of line a lot, then check/call is better. This is because you don't want to fold the best hand or put two bets in the pot with a likely losing hand; moreover, if BB is tricky, he's likely to take another stab at the pot when you check.

But against most villains, I think this is an appropriate time for the bet/fold line. (This coming from someone who tries to avoid bet/fold whenever possible.)

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The reason i hated my river decision at the time was that i didn't think that i would ever win this hand when called. I thought that there was a reasonable chance that this hand would check through given my very odd play and i don't think that i would overcall a bb bet, mp call. I guess i would be stuck calling if bb bet and mp folded, but i don't know that i'm good here 10% of the time, so i could also see a fold.

One benefit to betting is that if all he had on the turn was a weak ace, i thought TAG should have folded it on the turn as my hand looks a lot like a made flush, i'm c/ring in a still somewhat small, protected pot on the turn. Of course, if he has Adx, then he will call the turn. Maybe, just maybe, he will make a big laydown on the river, but i don't know that this is very reasonable to expect.

I wasn't really thinking of all this as the hand progressed. I knew i was f-ed, but didn't feel good checking this river, so i bet.

sweetjazz · #9 05-22-2005, 04:14 AM

Three good reasons for the bet/fold line:

Your check-raise on the turn looks like a diamond flush. So you can very safely fold to any raise; I don't think anybody's going to bluff raise you or raise a weaker hand than yours (out of sheer stupidity).

BB might be weak and fold to your bet figuring you must have the flush. Maybe he has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and makes an incorrect fold. His play up to the river is consistent with this scenario. (Okay, so this is Party, and thus this possibility is admittedly quite remote.)

BB will call down with a hand like KT or T4 or 66 often enough here to make the river bet profitable.

chesspain · #10 05-22-2005, 11:16 AM

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Three good reasons for the bet/fold line:

[1]Your check-raise on the turn looks like a diamond flush. So you can very safely fold to any raise; I don't think anybody's going to bluff raise you or raise a weaker hand than yours (out of sheer stupidity).

[2]BB might be weak and fold to your bet figuring you must have the flush. Maybe he has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and makes an incorrect fold. His play up to the river is consistent with this scenario. (Okay, so this is Party, and thus this possibility is admittedly quite remote.)

[3]BB will call down with a hand like KT or T4 or 66 often enough here to make the river bet profitable.

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Reasons 2 and 3 are so improbable given both our read of the opponent and the way the hand played out that they should not even come into consideration.