20-40 at the TAJ

[RollaJ]

Loose EP raises, folded to DV (thats me) in CO-1 I reraise KK, Relatively Solid Player calls in SB, BB folds, EP calls

Flop

Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]


SP bets $20, EP calls, I raise , Both call

Turn 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Both check to me I bet $40, they both call.

River Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] SP bets $40, EP folds ........now what?


Results in white:

<font color="white"> Well I was sure I just got rivered and I wanted to fold so badly, but I just kept looking at all those chips in the middle. In the end I made the crying call and he of course showed ...TT. I told him how great a bet it was 2-3 times, Ive never come so close to laying down and ending up calling, I was stoked! </font>

[nopepper]

Why call the river bet? If you think you have the hand won..raise...if you think your beat, fold. IMO calling this bet isnt +EV

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Why call the river bet? If you think you have the hand won..raise...if you think your beat, fold. IMO calling this bet isnt +EV

[/ QUOTE ]
WOW............nuff said

[Dante]

[ QUOTE ]
Why call the river bet? If you think you have the hand won..raise...if you think your beat, fold. IMO calling this bet isnt +EV

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising is terrible here....hands that you beat (i.e. TT, JJ, etc) probably won't call and hands that beat you will probably 3-bet (or at worst just call). So when you win, you will generally just win the original river bet and when you lose, you'll lose 3bets (or 2 bets if you plan on folding to a 3bet).

[nopepper]

Dante,

If your playing thinking your beat why call a river bet in the first place. He should just fold then.

[Daggs911]

"If your playing thinking your beat why call a river bet in the first place. He should just fold then. "

Is this for real?

_M_

[nopepper]

I think it is fairly likely that caller is playing mid pp here given the betting patterns. Any q would have brought a raise by the turn for sure...a 5 would also be raised by the turn. Therefore, given this info pp or AK are the only likely hands..rasieing this hand on the river will pay you off in both instances.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
If your playing thinking your beat why call a river bet in the first place. He should just fold then.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because there is like $400 in the pot and it costs $40 to call. He may be 90% sure he's beat and a call would be correct. I don't understand why you would consider raising this. Do you think a worse hand will call? Do you think a better hand will fold? I don't see either happening.

Personally I think this is a good and fairly easy call on the river (with the nice pot size) although I wouldn't feel too great about winning.

[Dante]

[ QUOTE ]
Dante,

If your playing thinking your beat why call a river bet in the first place. He should just fold then.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say I was beat. I said that the hands you WANT to raise (i.e. TT JJ, lower pairs, etc) 95% of the time won't call your raise. The only hands that will call are hands that beat you (AA, crappy queen, good queen weak player/weak queen) and any re-raise is either trips or full house or an OUTSTANDING read.

So again, to re-phrase, when you raise this, 95% of the time you won't get paid off by hands that you beat and you'll get raised by hands that beat you...or get pushed off your hand if you won't fold to a re-raise. So tell me where the benefit is in raising? I'm assuming the $20-$40 players at the Taj are competent enough to not call a raise with less than a Q here, maybe AA or KK.

[1800GAMBLER]

Order Theory of Poker.

re: hand. I wait for the turn to raise.