99, should I fold it on the turn?

igbr1 · #1 11-17-2005, 03:30 PM

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises, 1 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6.00 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: (4.00 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.00 BB.

milesdyson · #2 11-17-2005, 03:32 PM

no but you should have checked the turn, and you also should have had a read.

LoaferGee12 · #3 11-17-2005, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
no but you should have checked the turn, and you also should have had a read.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the turn is a pretty standard bet, no? He's calling all the way down with any piece of that board and you don't want to let him draw for free with a 1-card FD.

I can understand checking the turn and calling on the river if up against an aggro player.

MrWookie47 · #4 11-17-2005, 03:48 PM

I think this is a good example of checking with outs.

#5 11-17-2005, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good example of checking with outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the same time, isn't our hand is too vulnerable to be giving a free card?

LoaferGee12 · #6 11-17-2005, 04:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good example of checking with outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking with outs? So we're already giving up on our hand? I guess I just don't see how this isn't a value/protection bet here.

Redd · #7 11-17-2005, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good example of checking with outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every time I see someone suggest this play on the ML board I always wonder if it's largely applicable only at higher limits? My understanding of the concept is (despite the fact that we may have the best hand ATM) that the cost to us when we get check-raised and need to draw overwhelms the value in our value-bet. So even though we may be ahead a moderate majority of the time, the increased cost of paying 2 bets (versus gaining 1) means we should still check.

But do we not get more value out of our value-bets and have a lower chance of getting c/red against a typical ML opponent? It seems like checking with outs loses merit against an LP (AKA, a typical unknown ML player).

LoaferGee12 · #8 11-17-2005, 07:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good example of checking with outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Every time I see someone suggest this play on the ML board I always wonder if it's largely applicable only at higher limits? My understanding of the concept is (despite the fact that we may have the best hand ATM) that the cost to us when we get check-raised and need to draw overwhelms the value in our value-bet. So even though we may be ahead a moderate majority of the time, the increased cost of paying 2 bets (versus gaining 1) means we should still check.

But do we not get more value out of our value-bets and have a lower chance of getting c/red against a typical ML opponent? It seems like checking with outs loses merit against an LP (AKA, a typical unknown ML player).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I also think it's very applicable in 6-max but only against aggressive players as well. The typical opponent is not going to check-raise bluff here.

Buckmulligan · #9 11-17-2005, 03:57 PM

I don't really see a problem with betting turn with the intention of checking behind on the river. I also don't find a problem in folding this turn. Apparently I'm wrong though. How bout an explanation.

eviljeff · #10 11-17-2005, 04:23 PM

you can't fold the turn after you're c/r. I'm interested in the people that are saying you should have checked through the turn - I don't have a clear opinion either way on this.