2/4 Check-up Flopping the Nuts and not even considering FPS lines

Chris Dow · #1 03-30-2005, 07:02 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, BB folds, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Anyone even suggest thinking about another line here?

einbert · #2 03-30-2005, 07:06 AM

I would raise preflop. I would bet the flop too, why go for the checkraise when noone might even bet?

After that it's all elementary.

Dariel86 · #3 03-30-2005, 07:57 AM

I wouldn't raise preflop. I think he did the right move there.

einbert · #4 03-30-2005, 08:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't raise preflop. I think he did the right move there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well why don't you add your reasoning to the discussion, we already have a nice one going.

DeeJ · #5 03-30-2005, 07:09 AM

Looks fine to me. You will get raised @ river if he hits a runner runner flush, what do you do then .. call or fold [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Chris Dow · #6 03-30-2005, 07:13 AM

I have the Kc in my hand, if he has the actc or acjc he gets an extra bet. Raise preflop seems completely unnecessary and I would argue bad. It is not for value vs this EP limper. His hand is better than mine and I have no fold equity and I'm oop.

einbert · #7 03-30-2005, 07:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have the Kc in my hand, if he has the actc or acjc he gets an extra bet. Raise preflop seems completely unnecessary and I would argue bad. It is not for value vs this EP limper. His hand is better than mine and I have no fold equity and I'm oop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you had said he was a tight limper that would make a difference. I assumed an unknown since you gave no reads. Against an unknown openlimping UTG+1 I am raising this every time.

Chris Dow · #8 03-30-2005, 07:19 AM

Is that good though einbert? What are you accomplishing. Ok, force out the bb. (maybe) Build a pot. (Ok?) Start teaching him preflop that you have a big hand so that he will fold on the flop? (This seems like the most valid reason to me) Just exploring the thought process of the pf raise here. I was very comfortable calling. It also appears as if my deception collected me a lot of extra bets. Any considerations to the value of that when deciding between call and raise preflop?

#9 03-30-2005, 07:20 AM

get it headsup and increase your chances of taking it down

einbert · #10 03-30-2005, 07:25 AM

My thought process is that you probably have the best hand, your hand is more likely to hold up against one player than two, and dead money in the pot is good.

The almost two thirds of the time that you flop nothing more than an overcard or two, you will be glad that you have a decent chance to take it down with a flop bet.

Of course the X% of the time that you flop a straight, two pair or trips you would rather the BB still be in the hand, but the times you will flop nothing or one pair are many more than the times you will flop something like that.

If the limper were a very tight PF, well playing postflop player than I would be less inclined to raise, for sure. But with no other information I would assume that my hand beats his range of hands and obviously my hand is better than the completely random hand that belongs to the BB.