Do I push this?
 

20+2 big blind to 150

Hero 1200
UTG+1 1850
Button 660
SB 1500
BB 160

Hero dealt KQo
Do I push this? Everyone is pretty standard for a 22 except button may call with any ace and some hands that are worse then mine.

Re: Do I push this?
 

Common guys I really need your input. I have been running really bad last few days and need to know if this could be one of my leaks.

Re: Do I push this?
 

You get called by any ace, any pair, any two face cards at the 22s. So it's not really a good push at all.

If the table has been somewhat tight, like you think they won't call without a pretty solid hand, then pushing is okay. But in general it'll be trouble for you.

Re: Do I push this?
 

How low do I let my stack go before I push here? Also how big of an ace do I need to push here? Thanks alot for you input.

Re: Do I push this?
 

i think i push here

Re: Do I push this?
 

I like folding here.

Pushing is not so amazing IMO.

Yugoslav

Re: Do I push this?
 

Okay so I think pushing KQ here was the wrong play, but what hands can I push from this position?

Re: Do I push this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
20+2 big blind to 150

Hero 1200
UTG+1 1850
Button 660
SB 1500
BB 160

Hero dealt KQo


[/ QUOTE ]

You can survive a loss to the two tiny stacks. You can not survive a loss to the two bigger-than-you stacks. How have the big stacks been playing ? If you get in there all-in first will they have the sense to get away. Are they putting pressure on the little guy ? Chances are that there is an Ace in play.

I dunno I think it is close but I like pushing here.

Aggression on the bubble and near bubble seems to be a leak of mine so take that advice cautiously.

--
tjh

Re: Do I push this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can survive a loss to the two tiny stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a matter of surviving a loss to the tiny stacks. If the 2nd lowest stack beats us here, we've traded places with him. Make the low stacks make moves here, don't take an unnecessary risk by pushing this UTG. Use your chips to your advantage by being patient here. Plus you have to look at the game situation - adding 225 to your stack is not going to change the fact that you are solidly in 3rd and there are two shortstacks. What will change this dynamic is you losing this hand if you push.

I fold.

Re: Do I push this?
 

Definite fold, this isnt even close. First of all you have no fold equity on the BB...that almost always hurts your EV when your hand isnt that strong. Second of all your hand just isnt that good. You have 8x the BB 2 off the button. This is a clearcut fold.

Of course the hand also makes no sense as it seems there arent 8000 chips in play, so I have no idea whats going on here. Surprised that so many people gave responses considering the fact that the numbers are all screwy. Either way I almost never just open push KQo 2 off the button with 8x the BB.

Re: Do I push this?
 

Sorry its late. I meant stacks of
Hero 1200
UTG+1 1850
Button 6600
SB 1500
BB 1600

Re: Do I push this?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Definite fold, this isnt even close. First of all you have no fold equity on the BB...that almost always hurts your EV when your hand isnt that strong. Second of all your hand just isnt that good. You have 8x the BB 2 off the button. This is a clearcut fold.

Of course the hand also makes no sense as it seems there arent 8000 chips in play, so I have no idea whats going on here. Surprised that so many people gave responses considering the fact that the numbers are all screwy. Either way I almost never just open push KQo 2 off the button with 8x the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will you marry me?

Re: Do I push this?
 

Gigantic fold. I'd fold AJ as well - AQ is tricky. Curtains has already explained the reasons.

Re: Do I push this?
 

Isn't AQ an automatic push here with 8x BB, BB will call with any crap cards + FE? I'd push AQ here everytime, probably AJ too against only 4 opponents. Any thoughts on that?

Re: Do I push this?
 

AQo and AJo are probably clear pushes with 8BB for me

Re: Do I push this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AQo and AJo are probably clear pushes with 8BB for me

[/ QUOTE ] No disrespect just curiosity. Just wondering why you would do this UTG with the blinds at 75/150. I would do this at one level higher with these hands but he's UTG and his stack although it's only 8X BB doesn't seem short or in desperate need of those blinds.

Re: Do I push this?
 

The major problem is that the BB is allin. Pokerstove has you 63.563% with AJ against a random hand. That means your EV against the BB assuming everyone else folds is a gain of 91 chips. Normally it's much closer to 225 chips. 91 chips is not worth risking a stack of 1200 over.

All this also holds true with AQ, which is why I said it was difficult. The difference with AQ is that you are significantly less likely to be called by an opponent who dominates you. Even so, I'd have no quarrel with anyone who wanted to fold AQ here.

There's also a strategic issue here. Picking up the 235 chips doesn't accomplish your major goal, which is to eliminate the button. If the button doubles up to 1320, the fact that you have 1435 chips rather than 1200 is not going to matter all that much. (You still won't be able to sit through 3 rounds of blinds at 100/200, for example).

Re: Do I push this?
 

Ah - in the original post, I agree, in that case. However, he has since changed the chipcounts to:

Hero 1200
UTG+1 1850
Button 6600
SB 1500
BB 1600

In this case, AJ and AQ are for sure pushes for me. I think we got our wires crossed.

Re: Do I push this?
 

Oh. Heh. That's a little different.

However, that adds up to like 12,750 or something. But in that basic situation, UTG with KQ, I'd shove. I think it's close though.

Re: Do I push this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can survive a loss to the two tiny stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a matter of surviving a loss to the tiny stacks. If the 2nd lowest stack beats us here, we've traded places with him. Make the low stacks make moves here, don't take an unnecessary risk by pushing this UTG. Use your chips to your advantage by being patient here. Plus you have to look at the game situation - adding 225 to your stack is not going to change the fact that you are solidly in 3rd and there are two shortstacks. What will change this dynamic is you losing this hand if you push.

I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well stated and good reasoning. I change my opinion to fold.
Thanks 45suited for the well done response.

This forum rules.

--
tjh

Re: Do I push this?
 

Clear fold given the stack/blind sizes.

Re: Do I push this?
 

both are easy folds because KQo just isn't that good. The first one is even easier because you have no FE.

Re: Do I push this?
 

KQo becomes much closer with normal stack sizes. I'd still probably fold, but it's close. One main reason to fold is that when its 4-5 handed and the +Chip EV between pushing and folding is close, yet there are other players who don't have that many chips, it often swings your best play from pushing to folding.

AQo and AJo are elementary allins in this spot as is KQs. I suspect pushing with KQo will turn out to be either very slightly +EV if your opponents have tight calling standards, or slightly -EV if your opponents are looser. So it's really hard to determine and you are throwing away the chance of having later +EV situations occur and of miracles like 2 players busting in the near future occuring.

On the cutoff it should be a clear push.