flop math
 

anyone know the method to figure out how often you will outflop a person, i understand the calculators for river and turn but is there a way to figure out how often the KQ will outflop AJ or something?? im not very good at math

Re: flop math
 

please post this in the probability forum.

Re: flop math
 

rgr, haha i was hoping aaron brown would answer my post tho. haha

Re: flop math
 

Aaron would know, he's a genius.

Re: flop math
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "out-flopping" the same as winning? Would'nt the win % and outflop % be the same?

Re: flop math
 

well, it would be purely 3 cards, not all 5.. so would b different, so.. AK would not be 50% with a pocket pair.
chagnes liekt hat

Re: flop math
 

Oh ok.
Have you found out yet? I'm curious to see if the numbers change much.

Re: flop math
 

nope nothin..

Re: flop math
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone know the method to figure out how often you will outflop a person, i understand the calculators for river and turn but is there a way to figure out how often the KQ will outflop AJ or something?? im not very good at math

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's ignore flushes for now. AJ is cleary the dominant hand, so KQ needs some cards to promote it we have:
KKK (1 possibility)
QQQ (1 possibility)
KKx (135 possibilities -- x is any non-K)
QQx (135 possibilities -- x is any non-Q)
KQx (378 possibilities -- x is any non-KQT)
AJT for the straight (36 possibilities since one A and J are already gone)
KJx (324 possibilities)
QJx (324 possibilities)
Kxx (1890 possibilities)
Qxx (1890 possibilities)

So, there are 17296 possibile flops, and, of those flops, 5114 favor the KQ, so that's going to be worse than 1 in 3.

Re: flop math
 

hm is there a general formula of some sort?

Re: flop math
 

[ QUOTE ]
hm is there a general formula of some sort?

[/ QUOTE ]

What, you cant do that in your head at the table?

Re: flop math
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hm is there a general formula of some sort?

[/ QUOTE ]

What, you cant do that in your head at the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'd settle for knowing my opponent's cards, thank you.

Re: flop math
 

Thinking out loud
A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] vs. K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop of J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Can you say that AJ 'outflopped' KQ? Sure its ahead now, but I don't like its chances a whole lot.

ie. What is it we are trying to calculate, really?

Re: flop math
 

i think what we are trying to get at is that we always look at AK vs. TT as being close to a coin flip.. but TT can put in a big bet pre-flop, see that nothing hit (although obviously doesn't know opponent doesn't have J or Q) and then put in another tantalizing bet (not all-in, but take advantage of opponent frustration). of course, good players know that they may be facing only 6 outs, although could have opponent dominated.

to the guy who posted the flop hand.. interesting point but you've totally manipulated the flop for your purposes.. generally if a J falls without an A or K, our player is sitting pretty..

i asked this question on another forum recently and got answers for sites that have this..

Re: flop math
 

in that case KQ out flopped AJ.. but for examples like TT vs AJ, if AJ doesnt hit then TT is ahead. or another example that your pocket pair will hit 1/8. so 1/8 that u outflop the other hand.

but lets say AK vs 67.. how often would that out flop? because then you would know the implied odds you would require to call a big raise with suited connectors or hands of the sort.