Is this unethical?
 

I love going to batting cages. It's a good way to get some stress out, and get a little bit of exercise while I'm at it.

What I do not enjoy is buying the tokens for $2.50 each to buy me only 25 pitches.

So I went onto ebay and found a bag of 75 of the same-size batting tokens available for $32 including shipping. While I wasn't sure if these would work at the batting cage, I figured it was worth the gamble. So I bought them.

And not only did they work, but by sheer luck, the branding on the coins I got is identical to the branding of a 'real' token.

My co-workers seemed to be split on the issue. About half of them thought this was flat-out stealing, another half thought that if extra tokens were so easy to obtain, then I'd be a fool to not get them and try to use them. What say you?

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Of course it's stealling. You're receiving the service/product without paying the company that's providing it. In fact, you're paying $0 to that company.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

its iffy, but i would def do it cuz im an ass

Re: Is this unethical?
 

2.5 for 25 pitches.

that is so expensive.

just pay for 1/10 of your pitches. that is fair in my book.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Not sure if this is relevant, but I should have stated in my original post that I'd gone to this cage and legitimately bought many, many tokens, before it occurred to me to try ebay. Is there a certain number of legit tokens I would need to buy for use of these 'cheaper' tokens to be not as bad? Or perhaps I just think like a criminal too much.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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its iffy, but i would def do it cuz im an ass

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Re: Is this unethical?
 

I'm soooo looking for driving range tokens. I have much worse things under my belt that I already plan on burning in hell for, this is childs play.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

It's clearly theft. I might do it.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

This is clearly theft.

Essentially it is counterfeiting, and it would be no different than using fake lookalike red chips at the Mirage.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

It's clearly theft regardless of motivation. You only need to figure out whether you can justify your stealing to yourself and/or kids.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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2.5 for 25 pitches.

that is so expensive.

just pay for 1/10 of your pitches. that is fair in my book.

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You clearly have never run a business.

If you think the guy is charging too much, don't use his batting cage. You don't get to decide that because Wal-Mart is charging too much, you'll steal every other pair of jeans you get there.

Pay to use the cage or go somewhere else. Some guy owns that place, and every token you use that you don't buy from him is $2.50 less profit at the end of the year. This is no different than taking $2.50 from his pocket directly.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Well then perhaps my ethics are way out of wack, because if identical Mirage chips could be found on Ebay for pennies on the dollar, I'd be the first one there bidding on them, and I have a feeling that many others would be, too. There is a reason why the big casinos pay so much to make sure their chips cannot be counterfeited easily.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

If you answer that this is stealing, don't forget to delete any mp3's you have downloaded over the years tonight before you go to bed.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Also, keep in mind that I'm not saying that what I did was right. I realize that it's theft.

But if any of you that said it was theft, also download mp3s and burn CDs from them, then you're a hypocrite. At its essence, these tokens and downloading/burning mp3s are one in the same. Just as by using counterfeit tokens I am taking money out of someone's pocket, by using counterfeit sound files to make a counterfeit cd, you are also taking money out of someone's pocket.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

hahahah i wrote my last post literally the same time you posted yours (concerning mp3s).

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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If you answer that this is stealing, don't forget to delete any mp3's you have downloaded over the years tonight before you go to bed.

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It's not the same because if you're playing in a batting cage, that means that someone else can't, so you're not just not paying, you're actively preventing someone else from paying.

If you download mp3s that you would not otherwise have bought, you're just not paying but you're not preventing money from being paid because you wouldn't have paid for them if you didn't have the option to download them.

Having said that, they're both theft. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do the former but I do the latter, which is why I said previously that I "might" do the former, as I'm not saying I never steal.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

That's assuming someone is waiting in line. If you go during off hours when no one else is there, then they are pretty much the same thing.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Stealing is stealing, and there's no way around it. Keep in mind that part of the reason that things cost so much in the first place is that the business has to asorb the costs from people like you. Suppose the guy who runs the batting cage figures out what's happening (which shouldn't be hard). Now he's gotta switch to a new type of token, replace all machines, etc... That's a huge cost that gets passed down to all the customers. So now he starts charging $3.00 for tokens and some little kid can't go to the batting cage as often.

Not to be too heavy-handed, but you get the idea.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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Well then perhaps my ethics are way out of wack, because if identical Mirage chips could be found on Ebay for pennies on the dollar, I'd be the first one there bidding on them, and I have a feeling that many others would be, too. There is a reason why the big casinos pay so much to make sure their chips cannot be counterfeited easily.

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Your ethics are out of whack.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

What if I decided that I would never pay $2.50 for a token, but if I had free token's I would go, and might bring some of my friends, then they get hooked and go back without me and buy tokens on their own.

Is it stealing if I would never buy a token from the place? It doesn't cost anything for the machines to pitch. What about all the extra customers I just got for the cage?

Just a thought...

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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If you answer that this is stealing, don't forget to delete any mp3's you have downloaded over the years tonight before you go to bed.

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It's not the same because if you're playing in a batting cage, that means that someone else can't, so you're not just not paying, you're actively preventing someone else from paying.

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I understand this point of view, although, tend to disagree and think it is simple symatecs.

The fact that one product is of limited availability does not lessen the degree of theft in the eyes of the law. They are both certainly theft.

However, theft for personel use has existed, to some degree or another, in all walks of life throughout history.

When theft becomes for profit is when we have a real problem.

If the person were to purchase said tokens and then proceed to set-up-shop outside an establishment selling them for a discount, it would be a completely different story...

But people have been hoping the turn-styles in subways and kids have been sneaking onto golf courses for years and that is essentially what this is.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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Not sure if this is relevant, but I should have stated in my original post that I'd gone to this cage and legitimately bought many, many tokens, before it occurred to me to try ebay. Is there a certain number of legit tokens I would need to buy for use of these 'cheaper' tokens to be not as bad? Or perhaps I just think like a criminal too much.

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LOL, this makes no sense.

If you consider it stealing, then it's stealing no matter how many times you have refrained from stealing in the past.

"but officer, I'm a customer at that bank!!"

Re: Is this unethical?
 

I never said that was my excuse..... i was just asking in general, if you think that that affected anything at all.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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I never said that was my excuse..... i was just asking in general, if you think that that affected anything at all.

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I know. I answered your question. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It doesn't.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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If you answer that this is stealing, don't forget to delete any mp3's you have downloaded over the years tonight before you go to bed.

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It's not the same because if you're playing in a batting cage, that means that someone else can't, so you're not just not paying, you're actively preventing someone else from paying.

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I understand this point of view, although, tend to disagree and think it is simple symatecs.

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I don't think it's semantics at all. Please explain why you do.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

The eBay item is an easy purchase for me. In fact, two golf clubs in my area use the same driving range tokens. I purchase only from the cheaper one.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

It may not be the same, but I always use those Self-Purchase MOvie Ticket machines at the large movie theaters and by senior tickets. I havent been stopped yet. Although i hardly go to the movie theater anymore. i normally rent everything between Netflix or TLA Video.(philly indie video store)

but getting to what you did:

You're stealing from the batting cage place.

The question isnt whether or not its stealing, the question is: Will your actions affect their profit margin enough to put them out of business?

Probably not.

Do you want to try?

Up to you.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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It doesn't cost anything for the machines to pitch.

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you are wrong.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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It doesn't cost anything for the machines to pitch.

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Somebody has to buy the machines - maybe borrowed money to do it. They have to maintain the machines with parts and labor. They have to pay for the land where the machines are located - agagin maybe more borrowed money.

With these expense, zero revenue doesn't make a good business. You could be drving them out of business.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Would it change things if the Ebay seller said that these tokens were bought at the same batting cages on some kind of multi token special, but he can no longer bat because of a bad back?

Re: Is this unethical?
 

When I first came on here, there was a post about whether it's unethical to not inform the player next to you that you can see his/her hole cards.

I have played many more hours since, and I have my answer.

Don't lift your hole cards too high next to me.

Caveat emptor, pal.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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It doesn't cost anything for the machines to pitch.

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Somebody has to buy the machines - maybe borrowed money to do it. They have to maintain the machines with parts and labor. They have to pay for the land where the machines are located - agagin maybe more borrowed money.

With these expense, zero revenue doesn't make a good business. You could be drving them out of business.

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plus the electricity used to run the machines

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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Would it change things if the Ebay seller said that these tokens were bought at the same batting cages on some kind of multi token special, but he can no longer bat because of a bad back?

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yes.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

its stealing, but so what. 2.50 is a lot.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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It doesn't cost anything for the machines to pitch.

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Somebody has to buy the machines - maybe borrowed money to do it. They have to maintain the machines with parts and labor. They have to pay for the land where the machines are located - agagin maybe more borrowed money.


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.....they have to cover the cost of their high school age labor letting their friends have all-night freebies.

It's not like the OP has an unending supply of tokens. He'll pay his way if he keeps coming back.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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Would it change things if the Ebay seller said that these tokens were bought at the same batting cages on some kind of multi token special, but he can no longer bat because of a bad back?

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Of course it would change things, the company recieved their money for providing the service.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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Well then perhaps my ethics are way out of wack, because if identical Mirage chips could be found on Ebay for pennies on the dollar, I'd be the first one there bidding on them, and I have a feeling that many others would be, too. There is a reason why the big casinos pay so much to make sure their chips cannot be counterfeited easily.

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So the world is full of scummy douchebags like yourself. What's your point?

P.S. I find it disturbing that nearly 50% of respondants think that blatant stealing is O.K.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Scummy douchebags? Ok, whatever. If I have a chance at a big reward with little risk (as is the case with these tokens, or a mirage counterfeit, or mp3s), then I'm going to take it, plain and simple. What makes me sick are judgmental people who look down upon something like this, and yet burn mp3s, or do other illegal types of activities and think nothing of it.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

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It may not be the same, but I always use those Self-Purchase MOvie Ticket machines at the large movie theaters and by senior tickets. I havent been stopped yet.

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that's awesome. i'm definitely trying that.

Re: Is this unethical?
 

Of course its unethical. You cannot possibly make an arguement for this not being unethical.

The poll "How bad is this?" is completely unrelated to the initial question because this is certainly unethical yet I would also certainly do it.