What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

Before i start, i'd just like to say I'm a small stakes nl player.. However, since most of you probably have beaten ssnl before, as i have, i need to talk to you...

Heres the problem, i've always beaten ssnl but recently, im running into trouble... It seems my strategy just isn't getting paid off anymore, and the times I am getting paid off, im getting outdrawn...

I only play 2 pair or better postflop, and i play with relative idiots (people who will call with next to nothing)... THe problem is, these so called "idiots" aren't calling me down as much (and when the times they do call.. for example; I have AA, they call with 88 all i preflop) I lose the hand... OR, i have a set, they call all in with a flush on the turn, and hit it... Baffles the hell outta me how i am losing more money, than winning in these situations over the past 2 months...

SO, what should I do? THey fold when I bet, but when they call, and they are severely dominated (headsup) , they river me?

I basically, only play 2 pair or better postflop strongly... I bet, STRONGLY, always at least betting the pot when i know im ahead... Just getting rivered routinely on hands that should be winning...

And no, im not overvaluing TPTK, if anything, im undervaluing it.. But my goal in ssnl, is to double up, not win a small pot (that tptk usually wins)...

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

Raise more, bet more. Don't get too out of control, though. The swings can be hell but in the long term you win.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

I would loosen up a little bit. It is not optimal to only play two pair or better postflop. It can be a decent strategy considering as you said many will call you down with little or nothing.

As for getting drawn out on thats a part of poker and it sounds like your just getting a little unlucky lately. If you keep getting all the money in there with the best hand you will come out ahead in the long run.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

It is not clear from your post if you are always playing with the same people. If so, they have figured you out and you have to mix up your style. Make one of your strong bets with a good draw, for instance. Then do it with nothing on an uncordinated board. See what happens.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

Judging from your post, it seems like you simply play too predictibly, do you ever semi-bluff, limp reraise, slow play etc? Do you only raise group one hands? Try to vary your play and be more agressive with a range of hands broader then two pair so that it includes strong draws and other hands that you are probably losing value on.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

On the topic of being aggressive with strong draws.... Do you mean, the nut straight or the nut flush draw.. Or do you mean, a straight & flush draw combined? If you mean the latter, that is really hard to get..

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

I consider OESD and flush draws in late position, as well as pair + Straight or flush draw hands to be strong drawing hands.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

over cards are also very helpful!

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

OESD? What does that mean?

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

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OESD? What does that mean?

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Open ended straight draw

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

Been there man. The fishies come in streaks just like the cards.

Also try to play during peak hours, and especially at 4-6 AM on the weekends.

And if you play on Party change your screename.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

Top pair is by far more common than all stronger hands combined. You need to learn to play it well and not give people free cards etc by playing weak. It's very important that you win the pots where you have the best hand, even if its only middle pair. I think your problem is that you are losing tons of ev on these common "small pots" as you call them. I play very aggressively and go after those same pots, and it really adds up. Plus, it encourages other people to call you when you do flop something big. There is no avoiding aggression. It's optimal play. Name one top NL player who you wouldn't call very aggressive.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

If you only play 2 pair or better, its no wonder you dont get paid off. If I was playing you, I would fold every time you bet (unless I could beat you 2 pair that is).

Also, it sounds like you may be playing weak tight.
I bet all kinds of flops with nothing if it looks like nobody else has nothing either.

Predictablity will kill you.

As for the suck outs, the odds are in your favor if you have a better hand than they do and you will win in the long run.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

I think i may have unearthed the problem (although i haven't tested it out yet)...

I just put 2 and 2 toghether, and it seems my losing/breaking even streak starting soon after i started playing 3 tables, instead of my usuall 2 tables...

Anyone else think this could be making me make wrong plays? I do, because i am forced to pay less attention to players at a table when im at 3... I think this *might be the problems, ill try and see...

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

practice = play more hands = quicker decisions

eventually playing 4 or 5 tables full ring will be easy, granted the higher you play the, less you should multitable.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

I wanted to echo the predictability issue as well.

I'm a very tight player and when I first started playing NL, people didn't know that and would play back at me thinking I was bluffing.

I absolutely destroyed the tables for several days before people figured out that I almost always had what my bets said I had.

After that, my action dropped by 75% or more and so did my win rate. While it let me steal with impunity, I no longer got much action on my big hands as quite often the entire table would fold to even a medium sized raise.

That has forced me to mix up my playing style to be less predictable and the action has returned.

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

you should give up poker

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

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Also, it sounds like you may be playing weak tight

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YA THINK?

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

have you ever considered learning to play?

Re: What to do when you stop getting paid off
 

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THey fold when I bet, but when they call, and they are severely dominated (headsup) , they river me?

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If you are being honest with us and yourself, and the only problem is that you are getting unlucky on the river, then the only solution is ... keep playing. Your problem, as described, is simply bad luck. Time will correct this problem.

I'm guessing, however, there's more to your problem than you've decribed. Others have already touched on these possible problems .. weak tight ... predictable. Just be honest with yourself, uncover your weaknesses, and correct them. Blaming your losses on bad luck is often the first of many steps to discovering that you have other weaknesses to correct.