Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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I think it is, and as far as I know no one else has agreed with me.

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No I've heard this argument made. It claims that the US needed to play a limited role in Vietnam in the interest of perceptions and containment, but never needed to win. Therefore, everything more or less went as planned and as was necissary.

The more common arguments believe the war to be the greatest failure of our history. They are: 1) The US, obessed with containment and Soviet perceptions, escalated an unnecessary war in an irrelevant region and 2) The US was justified to go into Vietnam in stopping the spread of communism, but too many limitations were placed on our armed forces for them to win.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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What countries? Laos? Cambodia?

[/ QUOTE ] Contries in Europe, Africa, and South America. It's impossible to say which ones becasue it didn't happen.

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Y'know, I have a rock on my desk that keeps lions from attacking me and it works 100% of the time. How do I know? I've never been attacked by lions.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

How does it work?

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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How does it work?

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It scares them all away. Lord only knows how many times I could have been attacked by a lion if I didn't have it.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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What countries? Laos? Cambodia?


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Contries in Europe, Africa, and South America. It's impossible to say which ones becasue it didn't happen.


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Y'know, I have a rock on my desk that keeps lions from attacking me and it works 100% of the time. How do I know? I've never been attacked by lions

[/ QUOTE ] This doens't follow at all. Please rephrase your attack. For a cheap shot you could just say that Loas and Cambodia did fall into a communist state.

Or if you want to actually contribute you could point out the falicies of the Domino theory in regards to nations. Or you could point out that new communist states wouldn't have to be against america. Both of which where accepted at the time.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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How does it work?

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It scares them all away. Lord only knows how many times I could have been attacked by a lion if I didn't have it.

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I wish to buy one of your rocks!!

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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No. That's what the Cold War was. We won the Cold War. But, we lost in Vietnam.

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Is there any way for me to draw the conclusion that without the Vietnam war the Cold war would not have succeded. ?

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It's an arguable point. You could say the Communists victory in Vietnam was a pyrrhic victory.

I don't think it's a good arguement. The Soviet Union was very active in Central America after the U.S. defeat in Vietnam. They were enboldened by the U.S.'s defeat.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

If you think that the government in Vietnam was a threat to spread to other parts of the region, then u have a limited knowledge of Asian history/culture.

Even if the United States did successfully stop the spread of communism, so [censored] what? Communism was completely overblown as a threat to this country. None of the countries in world history have ever had a real communist government. I assume you've never read the Communist Manifesto.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

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How does it work?

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It scares them all away. Lord only knows how many times I could have been attacked by a lion if I didn't have it.

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Lord knows how many times? This one's easy .. I know how many times.

All of 'em, my friend. All of 'em.

Re: America won the vietnam war
 

"The communists."

Ho Chi Minh had very little to do with other communists. What Tito did, what Stalin did, what Allende did, had nothing at all to do with the war in Vietnam. It was only the United States that saw the war as a fight against international communism. The Soviets and Chinese did not help Ho Chi Minh at all until after the United States got involved. And the only reason the United States got involved is that France successfully framed what was a colonial and civil war in Cold War terms that, after Mao took over in China, allowed the conservative elements in American foreign policy making to win out over the more liberal elements who didn't want to make a stand in Vietnam.

Interestingly, those liberal elements wanted to not support the French not because they wanted to do nothing about communism in Asia, but rather because they felt that coming to France's aid would abet the cause of communism in Asia. They were, of course, correct.

Communism is on the way out because it's an inefficient and inhumane way to manage a country. Even the supposedly hardline Chinese communists are capitalists now.

The communists won in Vietnam not because they were communists, but because they were nationalists.