Did I play Big Slick okay here??

[Jman28]

***** Hand History for Game 713871088 *****
Table Multi-Table(29873) Table #31 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Romp013 ( $965 )
Seat 2: smcnd ( $1275 )
Seat 3: Dirdeewench ( $1430 )
Seat 4: every1gobust ( $1170 )
Seat 5: TigerDang ( $1350 )
Seat 6: skinsftbl ( $1170 )
Seat 7: ragscpd ( $865 )
Seat 8: PSummers32 ( $945 )
Seat 9: FourRacks ( $2200 )
Seat 10: opedm ( $570 )
Trny:4437849 Level:2
Blinds (10/20)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to skinsftbl [ Kc As ]
skinsftbl calls [20].
ragscpd folds.
PSummers32 folds.
FourRacks folds.
opedm folds.
Romp013 folds.
smcnd raises [150].
Dirdeewench folds.
every1gobust calls [140].
TigerDang folds.
skinsftbl calls [130].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, Ks, 8s ]
every1gobust checks.
>You have options at Table 11516 Table!.
skinsftbl bets [250].
smcnd folds.
every1gobust folds.
skinsftbl does not show cards.
skinsftbl wins 720 chips

[Hood]

Can you give info on why you played the hand you did? Because this near opposite to how I would play it. I would raise 4x BB UTG with QKs. Limping seems a very bad idea to me.

[Jman28]

Yeah, I posted last night and now I'm not sure why I played the way I did. I think there was a lot of preflop action in the game. One player raised preflop about 30% of the hands. I still don't know if this makes my play right.

I guess even when not in an agressive preflop game, my thinking is to mix up my play. Raise in this spot usually, and sometimes limp. That way, you can possibly get up against a KQ or AJ or even KT or AT and outkick them for their whole stack. They wouldn't think to put you on AK.

Lemme know what you think..

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess even when not in an agressive preflop game, my thinking is to mix up my play. Raise in this spot usually, and sometimes limp. That way, you can possibly get up against a KQ or AJ or even KT or AT and outkick them for their whole stack. They wouldn't think to put you on AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Limping you can also get in against 89o with a 67T flop, and lose your shirt. I agree that you have to use deception, but I'm not sure that this is the best way to go about it.

I'm more curious about your flop bet (this is an area of my game that is still quite weak). At this point you are (in all likelihood) way ahead. What card is out there that would scare you? Would a smaller bet might have kept chasers in the hand? I'm curious what others think is the right bet on this flop.

[fnurt]

250 is half of the pot. The reason they folded was not because the bet scared them out, it was clearly because they had nothing. Betting some miniscule amount like 50 to keep them in doesn't accomplish anything worthwhile.

There is a flush draw on the flop, and if someone has it, you want to make them pay for it. In addition, any time you slowplay a one-pair hand, you run the risk of someone making two pair or trips to beat you, which is why it is very rarely correct to do so.

[Sam T.]

Man, I don't know what I was thinking on any front. I looked for straight and flush draws and missed the two spades. I also completely missed the size of the pot.

I'm embarassed. Good bet. Question withdrawn.

[Jason Strasser]

I don't like limp calling. I bring AKo in for a raise 100% of the time here. If you decide on limp calling, the only reason I could see it working is for deception. If for some reason I decided to limp call this preflop, I think I would try for a checkraise on the flop, despite the flush draw.

If someone reraised your bet preflop, then you make the decision to commit your stack, or to stay clear. I generally opt to avoid this situation early, but it depends on opponents. I do not like calling with AKo and trying to flop TPTK. Too often I think it is a great way to bleed chips, especially because many players will miss the flop with AK and still call very nice sized turn bets with ace high.

Be the aggressor preflop with this hand.

[Jman28]

Looking back, I think you're right here and I was wrong. I'm not convinced yet that I'm wrong about limping, because I think getting in cheap and hitting TPTK against a hand that you have outkicked is very possible, and in that case, you can take his stack, and you can get away cheaply if you flop nothing at all. I'm not saying it's the best play there, but I think it's reasonable.

I would, however, in the same situation, either fold or push to the reraise.

Thanks for the advice. I've only been playing for 4 months, but I have read TOP, HPFAP, TPFAP, and Super System. I think I have a good grasp of the game, but definitely have room for improvement. I think this forum should help.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not convinced yet that I'm wrong about limping, because I think getting in cheap and hitting TPTK against a hand that you have outkicked is very possible, and in that case, you can take his stack, and you can get away cheaply if you flop nothing at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a common theory, but I don't agree with it. The thing is, if you have AK against AT, and an A flops, you will win some money from him, but you're not likely to win his entire stack. There are some players who will happily put all their money in with top pair, but they are not the majority.

On the other hand, when the flop is ATx, you WILL lose your whole stack, because you are going into this hand with the idea of doubling up.

In addition, by limping you are letting in all kinds of suited connectors and other hands that can easily draw out on TPTK.

The theoretical concept is that when you have a premium hand, you need to raise to cut down everyone's implied odds, or you become the hunted instead of the hunter.

[Jman28]

Okay, I'm wrong. Thank you for the post. I won't make the same mistake next time.