Heres another point to consider.....

[Syntax]

I would say most of us that play the low limit games do so for a two reasons: a smaller bankroll and a student of the game. We can get a lot of experience with a lower bankroll and make a large enough profit and have enough fun to make it all worth while. I would also suspect that most are planning to gradually step up as they get better. Getting better is the key concept here. Youre not going to get any better playing against really weak opponents.

So lets just assume for a minute that the players at UB and Stars really are much tougher then at Party. By playing the same limits, you would earn a little more at Party against the little fish but youre game would not improve at all. No matter what books you read or concepts you learn, you cant apply these to super fishes who don't know what they are doing. Effectively, you would be preventing yourself from getting the skills to move up to a higher limit where the profit will be even more.

If you played against the tougher opponents, your profits would be less, but your game would definitely improve. If the players were so much better as people suggest, and you could learn to beat the Stars 1/2 LHE game, you would be able to jump up one or two levels at the fishy site (Party).

So basically what I am saying is, by playing Stars or UB (if they really were that much tougher) you have the additional incentive of learning to beat the higher limit games at Party at a much lower cost.

... and keep this in mind, if you choose to just beat up on the super fish and not become a better player, who do you think are going to become the new fish when this wave of fish dissapear? Hint: It wont be the players that moved up

[MS Sunshine]

Syntax, I don't know what your deal is. The pro-Phil's DVD review and the pro-UB and Stars, while at the same time heavy anti-Party posts. Don't get me wrong, Party has lots wrong with it, but is still the easiest place to play. It's not even close. I play Party and PokerStars every day. Many here do the same, we know that your posts smack of someone with their own agenda. With all due respect to your high number of 2+2 posts, if you just hate Party, then that is fine please continue your posts with my apologies, but if you have a connection to Phil or UB please either announce that relationship or reduce the spamming.

MS Sunshine

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter what books you read or concepts you learn, you cant apply these to super fishes who don't know what they are doing. Effectively, you would be preventing yourself from getting the skills to move up to a higher limit where the profit will be even more.


[/ QUOTE ]

In your case I believe this to be true. Generally for all other players you are spouting gibberish.

Jimbo

[tyfromm]

While I disagree with many of your points from your various threads in the past several days, kudos to you for starting some good discussions. It needs to be discussed.

[sumdumguy]

While I have the utmost of respect for you Jimbo.. I think syntax is on to something. Just ask Annie Duke. Despite all her book knowledge and championship experience, she couldn't pull off an expert move on a superfish... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Syntax]

[ QUOTE ]
The pro-Phil's DVD review

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a dozen of these poker dvd's and these are IMO simply the best by far. Theres nothing else to it. Im hoping sooner or later someone else will admit they bought it too and post thier opinions.

[ QUOTE ]
the pro-UB and Stars, while at the same time heavy anti-Party posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not pro or anti any site. I have just been arguing my point against what the majority thinks to accept as gospel. I do not believe that Party is the softest site by such a large amount and these other sites are barely beatable.

[ QUOTE ]
Party has lots wrong with it, but is still the easiest place to play. It's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. This is the exact myth I was trying to dispell. Honestly, when was the last time you logged serious hours at UB or Stars at the the limits I was talking about. Although you have accepted it to be a fact that Party is easiest by far the others arent even close, in reality it is close.

There shouldn't even be an argument about this. It's easy to see who is right and wrong here. All you have to do is check out the games. The reason it is a debate is because people have accepted it as fact and are resistant to change.

[ QUOTE ]
we know that your posts smack of someone with their own agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't know that, you suspect that, and you are speaking for other people. There no grassy knoll, no ulterior motive. I was making a point that goes against popular opinion. If you are an affiliate at those sites and Im hurting your business then Im sorry, and I apologize to all affiliates Im offending.

[ QUOTE ]
but if you have a connection to Phil or UB please either announce that relationship or reduce the spamming

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no relationship with anyone or anything related to poker whatsoever. I live in central florida and I don't even know another person who plays poker. The only way I get to play is online and I do alot of it. These are my opinions, no more, no less. And I have not been spamming Phil by any means. I sincerely ask for you to read the first post I made in the thread called "Update: Phil's Million Dollar System" in the books forum. When youre through, I know you will have changed your mind about "my agenda".

Just becasue this is the zoo, not everyone is a troll, spammer, or conspiracy nut.

[Syntax]

So what you are saying is that I should play the way S&M outline in HPFAP in the $1/2 LHE game at Party?

[thomastem]

Syntax,

I will answer you seriously but first let me point at that on one hand you say tougher games teach you more so go to UB and Stars and then you say Stars and UB aren't really tougher negating your first point.

First it is true that in sports or strategy games you learn more by losing than winning. Ask Chess or backgammon players.

Now the reason Party is the best fish pond is total number of players and tables. The more tables going the smaller the impact 3 table players have on the toughness of the games.

So right now the games may look close but if you were to take the 3 tablers from party and put them on any other site you would see Party's games loosen up greatly and the other sites tighten greatly.

Now if you are beating the games at UB and Stars why in the world would you try and invite a bunch of sharks to your pond? I have a small site that I play at regularly and I purposely NEVER mention it because it's nothing but fish and I rarely see someone that I don't have notes on.

Damned if I tell you where.

[Syntax]

I did mention in my point to "assume those sites were tougher for arguments sake" but I don't think they are. The point was, if you believe there are better players at those sites there is still a great reason to play them, and if you don't think they are then well... but you do have a good point about attracting better players and about the three tablers, but I'm not really worried about, I don't feel like any of these are "my" sites or anything, I just want to play. But more importantly, I want to play good. I expect to play for another 60 years and at much greater stakes then I do now, and my biggest goal right now is to become better, not make an extra dollar per hour.

But I digress and my point was that times are changing but a lot of attitudes around here don't seem to be keeping up with it.

[Alobar]

how about I Stick to playing at party, were I make way more money than I would at stars or UB, AND I study and improve my game. So not only will I make more money than someone who plays at UB or stars, I will still continue to improve and move up limits. So in the end, I have the same skill and a much fatter wallet.....sounds good to me