Weakness is strength?

tardigrade · #1 06-26-2004, 01:58 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls, SB folds.

River: (7.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

What do you think? Bet the flop and hope, or get the free card? Raise the turn and scare out a player or call to the river? Raise the river against a possible split pot or keep everyone in? It looks like nasty weak-tight play, and maybe it is, but I had my reasons....

uuDevil · #2 06-26-2004, 02:57 PM

I might bet the flop hoping to knock out MP1 (giving me position on subsequent rounds). If that works I might get a free card on the turn. Also, I may have the best hand. If I check as you did, I would just play straightforwardly when I make the straight-- definitely raise the turn.

Jaran · #3 06-26-2004, 03:56 PM

Hey tardigrade,
I would have bet the flop and led/raised the turn 100% of the time here. On the flop, there's a chance against 4 players you will take it down right then, and you have a whole buncha outs (9 at least, possibly 10). On the turn, You have the nuts! Get as many bets into that pot as possible. On the river, if anyone remains after your barrage of big bets, I would bet if checked to, but only call if bet into. I don't want to pay the rake for a possible chop.

-Jaran

cold_cash · #4 06-26-2004, 04:24 PM

Bet the flop. Bet the turn. Raise/Cap the river if you're ever in this situation and have the chance.

I stopped worrying about the rake after seeing plenty of players go 4 bets with the wrong end of this straight when all the cards are out.

Greg J · #5 06-26-2004, 04:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think? Bet the flop and hope, or get the free card? Raise the turn and scare out a player or call to the river? Raise the river against a possible split pot or keep everyone in? It looks like nasty weak-tight play, and maybe it is, but I had my reasons....

[/ QUOTE ]
And what reasons would those be?

I think you should bet the flop not only hoping to get a free river, but for value and position. I count 9, possibly 10 outs here, plus a chance at a backdoor flush. And, a bet might buy you the button. If a blank come on the turn check it through. However, you have the nuts on the turn. I can understand calling if you want to keep other players in, but given there are 2 other people and not 3 or more, I think the raise is (usually) the right thing to do here. Plus, a lot of players will call 2 bets cold, and then if UTG reraises you when you have absolute nuts, you cap it no question -- MP1 might be dumb enough to call it!

River: Dude, you have STILL have the absolute nuts. I don't want to flame you for this too hard, since I make this mistake myself sometimes in the heat of the moment, but you HAVE to raise here. Only if you know both the other guys will fold should you just call. Hope for a betting war with the other guy calling all the way and there's a party in your pants! If a split pot happens it happens -- Maybe they both have aces, but if only one has a k high straight, a pair, 2 pair or a set, he might just call you down.

Just my opinion though.

RED_RAIN · #6 06-26-2004, 05:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think? Bet the flop and hope, or get the free card? Raise the turn and scare out a player or call to the river? Raise the river against a possible split pot or keep everyone in? It looks like nasty weak-tight play, and maybe it is, but I had my reasons....

[/ QUOTE ]
I would bet flop with this amount of callers, you won't for sure get a free card.
I would raise turn, get the money flowing, also push on heart draw.
River raise, one person who may not even call behind. Split nothing, I'd raise and reraise anything.

RED_RAIN · #7 06-26-2004, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there's a party in your pants!

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent

chesspain · #8 06-26-2004, 05:25 PM

Raise the turn. For all you know, MP1 and SB have absolute cheese, and will fold for one bet anyway. On the other hand, if either has a draw, they will either fold (which is fine) or they will pay you two bets now (which is also fine), but neither will pay two bets in total if they only pay one now and miss their draws on the end.

gojacketz · #9 06-26-2004, 05:30 PM

You gotta bet that flop. Backdoor hearts, 3 A, 3K, 4Ts. If it is raised behind you, I would probably 3 bet and perhaps take a free card on the turn if offered (obviously dependent on what MP1 does behind you).

I think I raise the turn here. UTG might have flopped a set of 5s and been trying to checkraise on the flop, or he might have QJs. Any read on him? Any idea what he limps with UTG?

If you get checked to on the turn after missing, what do you do? I know what I would do, but when I start betting, it is hard for me to stop, hehe.

River. I think you have to raise here. So many players will keep going with a set, two pair, lower straight that in the long run, it pays to keep firing. Probably over half the time you are going to split and pay more rake, but you will get extra bets enough to pay for it here.

Gojacketz