QQ - flopped a Q

Matty · #1 06-25-2004, 04:28 PM

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, MP3 3-bets, CO calls, Hero caps, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 3-bets, CO calls, Hero caps, BB calls, MP3 calls, CO folds.

Turn: (17.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, MP3 calls.

River: (23.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 25.75 BB
Main Pot: 25.75 BB, between MP3 and Hero.

So what do you all think about that Turn raise?

k000k · #2 06-25-2004, 04:43 PM

I think the raise is ok, and I feel releived when I don't get re-raised.. I'd get scared if I got pushed any harder than that.. You have one of the flush cards, so that reduces the odds of a made flush. I bet you're up against AK or AQ.. AA or KK would probably 3bet you, and a flush would DEFINATELY reraise you... Well, should anyway, maybe not would...

I'd play it the same.. You MUST play sets hard like this. I think you won, especially since you got called down on the riv, but even if you DID lose it this time, good play, nice hand!

tardigrade · #3 06-25-2004, 04:43 PM

I think there's a decent chance of AA or KK being out there. Capping the flop seems mandatory to me with everyone so committed to the pot after the pre-flop action. I like the raise on the turn representing the flush. There is no reraise, but two callers, which I think is informative ... they seem to fear the flush, but their hands are too nice to lay down. I'd check-call the river at that point and cross my fingers. I think you didn't get raised because he fears the flush, but I'm really suspecting AA or KK at this point and don't want to put more money in the pot. Do you think that's too weak?

secada · #4 06-25-2004, 04:54 PM

I think raising the turn is a must. No way I put MP3 on a flush, what did he 3-bet PF with? With the Ace [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] out you're just worried about AA & KK.

I guess you'd have to slow down if he raised you on the turn...but I wouldn't even like that because much more often than AA or KK he's going to have AK. If you lost to J10 (not diamonds) then I hope you put MP3 on your buddy list.

-secada

elitegimp · #5 06-25-2004, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you all think about that Turn raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

to re-iterate what everyone else says, it's a good raise. besides the set (with your 10 outs to a boat, or 1 out to quads if you're up agains AA or KK), you have the diamond outs to the nut flush.

The river bet is iffy -- you won't get AA or KK to fold (unless they're extremely weak / don't read the NPA's posts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), and I don't know how many times you run into AK or AQ here instead of the flush...

TheRake · #6 06-25-2004, 05:11 PM

This looks to me like the type of hand that NPAEM prefers not to cap on the flop. There are so many draws on this board and no one (with a decent draw or hand) is laying this down to your cap on the flop. The pot has gotten quite large and you should be thinking about how to win it. You should be looking to try and make people face 2BB cold in order to increase your chances of winning.

Maybe Ed wants to chime in on this one. PLEASE [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

TheRake

TheRake · #7 06-25-2004, 06:59 PM

Grey,
So I was thinking about this hand on the way home from work. I really dislike the cap on the flop. You are never going to fold any straight or flush draws and you may well be drawing nearly dead to AA. The line should look more like

call the 3 bet on the flop
Raise the turn (since you also picked up the nut flush draw)
check behind on the river (certainly I would not fault you for value betting here. It is unlikely you will be raised by anything except a flush)

Comments anybody?

TheRake

SnakeRat · #8 06-25-2004, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This looks to me like the type of hand that NPAEM prefers not to cap on the flop. There are so many draws on this board and no one (with a decent draw or hand) is laying this down to your cap on the flop. The pot has gotten quite large and you should be thinking about how to win it. You should be looking to try and make people face 2BB cold in order to increase your chances of winning.

TheRake

[/ QUOTE ]

No draw is going to fold on the turn, whether you cap the flop or not.
You cant really increase your chances of taking this one down, no matter how you play it.

Just make the pot as big as possible since you will drag this more often than not.

I think he played it well.

TheRake · #9 06-25-2004, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No draw is going to fold on the turn, whether you cap the flop or not. You cant really increase your chances of taking this one down, no matter how you play it. Just make the pot as big as possible since you will drag this more often than not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't want the turn to be checked to you. You are a bigger favorite if/when a blank falls on the turn. by making them call 2BB (on the turn) instead of 2SB (on the flop) you charge them more to draw out on you. plus there is a small chance you can make them fold. Raising the turn is definately better in this case.

TheRake

Blindfolk · #10 06-25-2004, 07:48 PM

I think he has AQ, no diamond.