Raise PF right? Or don't bother

[Sarge85]

I think I should have raised PF
Then Lead the Flop

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, Button checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Button folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 1.50 BB, won by BB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to BB.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. BB wins 2.50 BB. </font>

Sarge [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[sthief09]

raise or fold. calling makes this hand very difficult to play for its pair value, and you're getting nowhere what you need to flop a set.

[BaronVonCP]

I disagree. Calling isn't horrible against most bad players.
5:1 isn't all that bad.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
raise or fold. calling makes this hand very difficult to play for its pair value, and you're getting nowhere what you need to flop a set .

[/ QUOTE ]

5:1 for a half of a small bet is PLENTY to play this hand for set value alone. his implied odds are huge when he gets in this cheap.

if the button had folded this would definitely be a raise but since you cannot win this pot preflop limping is a must.

[sthief09]

I guess I've been playing too much 3/6 and 5/10 because I had to double-check to see that he was really getting 5:1.

I don't understand how his implied odds are huge though. I know he only needs to make 2 SB, but no one seems to be too interested in the pot.

[Trix]

I play it he same way without a read. If BB is tight and Button can let go if he miss the flop, then I raise. If I know that he will chase all the way, then 33 isn´t really that good.

[JohnShaft]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how his implied odds are huge though. I know he only needs to make 2 SB, but no one seems to be too interested in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

His implied odds are plenty good. The only problem is he's only got two opponents (and one is the BB). But considering all he has to do is complete, he only needs to pick up a bet or two on the Turn and beyond every now and then (when he flops a set) and he more than makes up for the times there's no action.
It's also pretty hard to say no-one is interested in the pot before the flop comes.

I wouldn't even contemplate folding here.

[JohnShaft]

Tosh I really wouldn't raise here. The vast majority of the time you will flop bottom pair in a raised pot with the absolute worst position. You'll then have to bet with absolutely no idea where you are.
A button who open limps is also very unlikely to be someone who can 'fold well' in my experience. Quite the opposite. The fact that he calls suggests he's playing a hand that isn't that great that he doesn't want to fold. That does not speak well of your chance of getting him to fold off a moderate pair in a raised pot.

I really don't see how anyone is considering any action other than calling preflop. Folding and Raising seem equally bad to me.

[Saborion]

Low pairs are tough to play out of position post-flop, aren't they? If the button is quick to release, then you might want to raise I suppose. Getting 5:1 from the pot, I'd complete in most cases.

[MarkD]

That's exactly how I see it too John. I think there is only one correct action here.

Actually, I think raising is worst, folding is second worst, and calling is by far the correct action.