T9s UTG+1, 5/10

BigEndian · #1 06-18-2004, 10:09 AM

I have been seeing about 6% of the flops after about 100 hands when this hand came up. Important opponent is loose and moderately aggressive according to their numbers, but that's only after about 30 hands - so not the best indicator for obvious reasons.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: BigEndian is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, BigEndian raises, MP1 (Loose, Moderate-aggresive) calls, 5 folds, BB calls,

Flop: (6.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, BigEndian bets, Loose, Moderate-aggresive raises, BB folds, BigEndian 3-bets, Loose, Moderate-aggresive calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BigEndian bets, Loose, Moderate-aggresive raises, BigEndian calls.

River: (10.20 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BigEndian checks, Loose, Moderate-aggresive bets, BigEndian calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB
Main Pot: 12.20 BB, between BigEndian and Loose, Moderate-aggresive.

- Jim

Aces McGee · #2 06-18-2004, 11:00 AM

Was this a particularly tight table?

If not, then I prefer to limp UTG+1 with T9s.

-McGee

BigEndian · #3 06-18-2004, 11:09 AM

It was fairly typical 5/10. Half the table filled with MTers and a couple loose people bleeding chips in a way that you want to call them on the phone and beg them to seek help.

The two times I had open-raised previously, I took the blinds. There's at least one 2+2er at the table that doesn't know me as a poster to these boards, but has been getting out of my way routinely when I see him at a table. I'm starting to ramble... The table was tight enough that if I limped I would likely get raised and only have 2-3 people to the flop including myself - not a place to limp with T9s imo.

- Jim

Guido · #4 06-18-2004, 11:17 AM

Why don't you fold preflop?

MarkD · #5 06-18-2004, 11:17 AM

I like limping with T9s in the Party 5/10 games UTG and EP. I raise occasionally for some of the reasons you site. I think limping is better in general.

Having raised I like the way you played it. I like the flop 3-bet as more and more often people when the pre-flop raiser bets a flop like this some schmuck is raising him because they assume it missed you. It did miss you but you have plenty of outs that you can 3-bet his ass and bet the turn. I'd say 15-30% of the time that I make this 3-bet my opponents have been folding right on the flop.

It's just like the typical yahoo's that have started to bet into the pre-flop raiser on boards like this. It's nearly an epidemic on party.

BigEndian · #6 06-18-2004, 11:20 AM

Typically, I would have folded this PF. This isn't SOP for T9s in EP by my playbook.

- Jim

BigEndian · #7 06-18-2004, 11:22 AM

I'm curious if limping with this hand is a routine part of your playbook at the 5/10. Especially if you can expect to be popped by a MTer in LP. How successful do you feel you have been with this hand in that situation?

- Jim

MarkD · #8 06-18-2004, 11:27 AM

Yah, pretty standard limp unless the table has been playing slightly tighter or more agressive than usual. Even in the 5/10 games limping begets limping if the original limper is UTG or UTG+1. I think it helps if the limp comes UTG rather than UTG+1.

If the game is playing really tight then I raise this hand.

I don't know how sucessful I've been to be honest. It might be -ve EV but I like it as a play balance play. I'm not at home so can't look at PT. It is interesting to note that I'm currently losing money UTG and UTG+1, but my sample isn't too large so it may not have converged yet (it is close to break even but still -ve).

EDIT: I should note that I don't consider folding to be a mistake, it's just that I like to play and I don't consider this hand to be horrible. I think 9Ts and JTs in these games up front are close to neutral and what you do with them doesn't matter much but again I'm losing money upfront so maybe I'm overplaying them and Axs.

hockey1 · #9 06-18-2004, 11:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The table was tight enough that if I limped I would likely get raised and only have 2-3 people to the flop including myself - not a place to limp with T9s imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then fold.

BigEndian · #10 06-18-2004, 11:42 AM

I'm not going to get into another 100 post dialog about whether I should have folded this hand PF. I think, by far, it's the least interesting part of this hand.

I do wonder sometimes if people work so hard on their PF play that they become too absorbed on this very small part of the overall game.

On later streets, this guy represents nothing short of a solid made hand. The raise on the flop means nothing, but when he calls my 3-bet on the flop and then pops the turn I need to give hard thought to whether I can call on the end unimproved getting 11-1.

That's much more interesting than whether raising T9s on occaision first in UTG+1 is a bad play.

- Jim