Did I cheat?

The dealing at the shoe has gotten worse daily as dealers work straight through. Couple this with the fact that many of the temps are just awful and I have seen many wierd situations come up. This one happened to me yesterday:


10-20 Shoe game. Some limpers and a raiser on the button, I defend with TT, the limpers call.


Q 9 5 or some such, I checkraise the button, coldcaller and button stick around. 3 to the turn which is an 8. I bet again, coldcaller raises, button cold calls and I..........


....I watch as the dealer pushes my initial bet into the pot along with everyone elses 2 bets. She then burns, turns and I miss, then check-fold the river. No one seems to notice or care.


So I saw the river for 1 BB instead of 2.


Did I cheat?

you did cheat, but i think what youre implying is that you did it in the best interests of the game.


the downside is that someone may have witnessed you saving the bet but not realize that you voluntarily forfeited the pot and thus they think you are scum.


but if you turn it around and ask yourself if you are the guy gets pushed the pot, would you rather redo the river and risk the whole pot just because its a bet short? i didnt think so.


but be prepared to defend yourself clearly and simply if things get crazy, as they sometimes do, and you are accused of shorting the pot.


brad

Yes.


You've got to say something here, preferably before the river card is dealt in order to avoid creating confusion.


Most of us have seen players "give away" entire pots after the dealer incorrectly pushed it to them after misreading an opponents hand at the showdown (ex: dealer thought opponent had just a pair and missed that opponent had a straight which wins).


If other players can can give up entire pots which were pushed to them because of a dealer error, you should be able to put in the proper number of chips on a turn call.


Seriously, if you see the player who won the pot tommorrow or another day, you should give him the $20 you owe him. You'll never regret losing $20. You might regret having the feeling that you didn't play fairly.

no way. no harm, no foul. nobody said anything. if you HAD said something, wouldn't proper procedure dictate dealing a new river card? and couldn't your correcting the turn action (which is THE DEALER'S fault, not yours) be construed as an angle to get a new river card?


let it go. you are there to win money based on your opponents' mistakes. nobody caught the mistake. not the dealer. you win. end of story.


unless of course, its eating you up inside. then give the guy the $20.

technically no. you didnt claim a pot that was not supposed to be yours because you had not put in the right amount by missing a bet. say you needed to spike a T on river and it comes. if you had no intention of calling the raise on turn and muck anyway on river whats the difference? if you planned on claiming the pot if you won on river when a bet lite yeah your intent was to cheat. seems like dealer screwed up and players werent aware and it happened faster than you could respond to it. it would be better to say something before she turns up the river card in the future.

In theory, they could have somehow determined you didn't call, and denied you the pot had you won.


Besides, most of the dealers that do that for me, I have to pay them off almost as much as I save anyway.


eLROY

No, in no way is it eating me up inside. I just thought it was an unusual situation since basically, I blinked and suddenly I was looking at a river card. It happened that fast.


And since there is no way in hell I was calling the turn, there is also no way that I am giving anyone twenty bucks.

I can buy the arguement that it was cheating. Not convinced, mind you, but its a defendable stance.


But it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest I pay anyone $20 since in no way would I have voluntarily put another nickel in the pot.

So you would have mucked if a T fell on the river..? I hope so.

Should have also mentioned to the dealer that you hadn't had a chance to act before the card was turned.


G

Horseshoe is the place to save a bet, eh? You are right about one thing- those dealers are the worst I've ever seen. For the record, this type of thing has happened to me at both the Bellagio and Mirage, but the players catch the error faster than you can say "call"! Babe