ps 11 + rebuys hand question

[Ronin29]

i've lurked in the shadows for a bit, but this is my first post..

ps tourney last night, 880 entrants, down to 255 and 81 make $$. i have 9k in chips, avg is 16k, blinds are at 300/600 with i belive $50 ante. i am one off the button with AhKh.. two limpers from middle position to me, so i go all-in looking to pickup the 2100 in there.. the SB with 14k re-raises all-in, the two limpers fold. the SB flips over 99. obviously the 99 held up and i'm history.

my take is this, but i'm not sure if i'm all wet. my first take is that the SB put me on a steal and was all wrong. of course i didnt really want a caller, but i wasnt on a steal either if that makes sense. anyway, it is his re-raising to isolate my shorter stack all-in which tells me he see's me stealing... so in that case he guessed wrong but it worked out for him.

my other take is that he made a terrible play (but this is where i need opinions).. i had played a tight game, raising with solid hands, and had not stolen blinds in many orbits (because i was getting decent hands).. i think his calling of my all-in (forget about the re-raise) was the wrong move. he should have suspected that i would not have gone allin without a nice hand, i wasnt near being blinded off or anything. with his 99 he is obviously dominated by 10's on up and a slight favorite over AK/KQ.. i could understand if i limped and he then went all-in... then i would have to decide if i want to engage in a coin-flip. but why call an all-in there?

does my analysis make any sense? or did he actually play the hand well??

thanks for any opinions,
Ronin29

[Thebram]

[ QUOTE ]
SB put me on a steal and was all wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

You bet 9k into a 2k pot with a drawing hand, and you don't consider that a steal?

I'm somewhat new to MTT, so maybe my definition of a steal is a little off, but he had a better hand than you (albeit just slightly) so if he folded to your bet, I would consider that a steal.

As for his call with 99, at that stage of the tournament, orbits cost 1400, maybe he saw this as his best chance to double up while it would still make a difference.

If put in either of your place or SBs place, I can see myself playing exactly the same way. You just lost the coin flip this time.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
You bet 9k into a 2k pot with a drawing hand, and you don't consider that a steal?


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. I *hate* this way of thinking. AK is NOT a drawing hand. Any non pair hand that it is up against has to draw against *it* to win. Yes it is behind a pair, but if you'd rather play 22 than AK (generally, not against each other) because 22 is a 'made hand' well, I think your thinking is fuzzy.

As for the hand, I don't see any other way you could have played it. I don't see what non-all-in raise you can make here that doesn't pot-commit you. With 2 limpers, think you need to raise to ~3K to give yourself a shot to take it down right now, and if you raise 1/3 of your stack with AK preflop, folding that hand at any later point is almost certainly going to be a mistake, and folding it to a pre-flop all-in re-raise would *definitely* be a mistake, since as we can see, players will push against you with medium pairs and getting better than 2:1 you really need to call there anyway). I like just making it clear to anyone who might call that you are willing to play this hand for all your chips, rather than making some cowboy think you can be pushed off of it.

I like your play a lot better than the guy who pushed with 99. He has to know he is isolating with a coin-flip at best (maybe, *maybe* someone might do what you did with 88, but certainly it would be done with TT-AA).

To everyone who criticized. What do you raise to? What do you do if someone re-raises all in. What do you do if someone calls, the flop comes rags, and someone pushes? At his stack size, a smaller raise just looks like an invitation to push him off the hand to me.

[fnurt]

This response is pure money. With only a couple limpers in the pot, you have every reason to think your AK is the standout best hand. Calling with it and hoping to flop a pair is too weak at this stage of the tournament.

Consider it from another perspective. 95% of the time, those people are limping because they want to see a flop cheaply. Why would you give them what they want?

[Ronin29]

Those are my thoughts exactly fnurt... thanks.

[Thebram]

[ QUOTE ]
Ugh. I *hate* this way of thinking. AK is NOT a drawing hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that I would rather play AK than 22, but as far as the SB cared, AK may as well been KT, QJ, AT, AQ...etc.

Also, I'm not disagreeing with the posters play, I'm just trying to understand why SB's play is "terrible".

If he called with 22, I wouldn't ask the question. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Edge34]

Hey Ronin,

Welcome to the forums, officially, first. As for your hand, there are a few ways to look at it. You're right, probably most of us won't be calling an all-in for over half our stack with 99, but then, some people will, and your opponent was fortunate to have his hand hold up. Of course, all the "he SHOULD know I've got a nice hand" stuff is virtually irrelevant - yes, he should. No, he doesn't, or if he does, he doesn't care.

One possibility I see here is not necessarily committing all your chips PF here, but making, say, a 3 or 4xBB raise and working with the flop. If, as you say, you weren't worried about being blinded off, you could save chips when you whiff. This way, a hand like 99 will also potentially lay down with overcards out, and 1 in 3 times you'll hit at least one of your pairs. Its just too bad this wasn't one of those times, with the SB's semi-questionable play (since he did get in with slightly the best of it).

-Edge

[jwg152]

I agree with your analysis. He made a dumb call. I know this type of player: he doesn't quite understand the math. He knows that there are only 5 hands that better his holding- and he guessed correctly that you didn't hold one of these. However, this player often fails to realize that even rag holdings like KJ,Q10, etc are a coin flip with his 99.

[fnurt]

I think you made a nice move. One thing that happens in the wonderful world of online play is that people call with 99 assuming you have overcards, people call with KQ assuming you have a lower pair. In order to succeed in the 800-person monstrosity that is the rebuy tourney, you probably have to win a couple of these hands, because people will make those calls.

Just keep on playing your game. You'll love the dead money when you try this play with JJ and someone calls with 99, or when you try it with AKs and someone calls with KQ.

[Thebram]

Why is this such a terrible call from the SB?
If he really puts the hero on a steal, then against two overcards, he's a 1.1:1 favorite, getting 1.2:1 pot odds.

I know these are not great odds to risk your whole stack with, especially considering the hero could just as easily have JJ or TT, but at this stage of the tournament is it really that horrible of a call?

SB has a slightly below average stack, and is still a good way away from the money. If you don't defend against a steal here, when do you?