brierish type laydown? from me?

not meaning the subject to be a putdown, i actually have much more respect for brier's writings now that im trying to tighten up my game a bit and expand my knowledge and respect for other people's approaches to the game.


this hand was in a 9-18 game i played last night. players are generally weak passive. im one from UTG and after utg limps i raise with AA. folded around to the button who is an okay somewhat tight player, she cold calls, the bb calls as well (a decent player).


the flop is K88 with 2 diamonds, i dont have the ace of diamonds. checked to me, i bet, the button raises, the bb cold calls, and now utg makes it 3 bets. utg is an old man who is not quite a rock, but certainly passive as all get out. i think for a second and then lay my AA down figuring im up against an 8 and diamond draws.


what do you think?

makes sense to me Mike, it appears you are playing a 1 outer against trip 8's ( as the ace of diamonds, if not already in someone's nut draw hand, will likely fill the flush for someone)

well the Ad is a great card for me because then i fill up when someone makes there flush. remember the board is paired, making my two outer draw better than if it was not.


incidentally that's the exact card that came on the turn after i folded on the flop and the button and bb called the utg 3 bet.


bb bet out, utg called, and button folded. same thing happened on the river blank. bb made a queen high flush and utg showed us all an upsetting hand: KTo. i guess my read on him was completely and totally wrong. F**K! i think button would have usually called to the river with any 8 so i guess she just had a pair and my AA was good on the flop. i really feel like this was a disasterous mistake and i should have called.

Good lay down!

Laying down AA in this situation is the personification of the "weak tight" description given to so many players who will fold premium hands when faced with aggression by other players.


Too many players (myself included!) will too often put their opponents on the best reasonable hand when faced with aggression. In this case, an 8 for flopped trips. I don't know if I would have check-raised with a KT but I definitely would have at least bet the flop into a pre-flop raiser.

I think the most over used adjective in poker is weak-tight. Calling two bets cold when a tight player raises you and a passive player 3 bets is loose-weak. I'll let you call down and see the 8 on the river 9 times out of ten (the tenth time you'll lose to a flush).


Nice laydown Mike. Don't be results oriented.

Assuming that somebody has flopped small or medium trips 9 times out of 10 is going to cost you a lot of money if you keep folding premium hands like AA.


I wouldn't have called anybody down. I would have re-raised with what is likely to be the best hand. How many hands can a tight old man call a pre-flop raise with that includes an 8?

The fact that strikes me is Mike saying that a very passive player 3 bet him. It doesn't matter if he's tight or not. When passive players spring to life I find that it's best to avoid them, especially with two more betting rounds to go. Aces are not a free trip to the showdown, and learning to lose less with your good hands is a valuable lesson.

of course you are correct. The Ad is a great card for you as it fills you up with second nuts. (only pocket 8's being better) and I wrongly assumed the Ad was likely in someones hand already given the action on the flop.You did describe your opponents as passive, not tricky. (you might want to re-evaluate your reads on them) If you truly decide to play on I think the move was to cap the flop, not just call.


But what are the odds of the Ad or case ace falling on the turn or river? I still say the laydown was the prudent choice.

where were you when you played this hand? I recently played a game at the mirage where a certain player always raised or threebet when he had top pair, regardless of his kicker or whether there was a pair on board. He would also follow through with a raise on the turn, again regardless of the board.


Pat