How do you play this flopped set?

z32fanatic · #1 05-20-2004, 05:18 PM

This is a pretty interesting hand from earlier today. The button player had been raising to $4 enough to make me think it was an "any ace" kind of raise.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 (6 max, 5 handed)

UTG ($38)
Hero ($79.60)
Button ($191.30)
SB ($323)
BB ($30.77)

Preflop: Hero 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Hero calls $2, Button raises to $4, SB calls $3, BB calls $2, Hero calls $2.

Flop: ($16) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $5, SB calls $5, BB folds, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($31) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players) 
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $5, SB folds, Hero raises to $15, Button calls $10.

River: ($61) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Hero bets $20, Button raises to $167.3 (All-In), Hero calls $35.60 (All-In).

Final Pot: $283.90
Main Pot: $172.20, between Hero and Button. > Pot won by Button ($172.20).
Pot 2: $111.70, overbet by Button.

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 3c 3h (full house, threes full of aces).
Button shows Qd Ac (full house, aces full of queens).
Outcome: Button wins $283.90. 

I typically slowplay sets, especially in a raised pot when an ace falls. Is this how you guys would play it?

Richie Rich · #2 05-20-2004, 05:41 PM

If I was holding 33 in this hand, I (too) would have lost all of my chips. Only question is why you check-called a weak bet on the flop? With two diamonds out there, you should have bet at least the pot...I'm sure any flush draws would have called to chase you down.

If your opponent happened to have A8, then I'd say "you deserved it...you bet too weak until the last card." But in this case, it's just an unfortunate loss. I understand that you had a relatively short stack compared to your opponents, and wanted to try to lure them into the pot without scaring them off at any point...heck, you were committed 100%. But you need to bet more aggressively to keep 'em guessing...

btw- did you try to at least guesstimate your opponent's hand at any point? AQ seems like a reasonable PF min-raise hand to me. Doesn't really matter, though...I would've been willing to go all-in on any of the streets.

z32fanatic · #3 05-20-2004, 10:43 PM

I was attempting to slow play the set, so I assumed he would bet more than $5 on the turn, which would result in a bigger check raise. AQ crossed my mind, but I was thinking he would more than min-raise with that and would min raise with AJ, A10, or Axs as many people do at these tables.

Richie Rich · #4 05-20-2004, 10:51 PM

Agreed. If the board isn't too scary, then slowplaying a set is usually the best way to maximize your profits. Like I said before, in your shoes, I would have lost it all as well. Pick up and move on. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

ansky451 · #5 05-20-2004, 11:28 PM

You probably played it right, and you would have lost all your chips no matter what. This is a more general question though to everyone, Why, is the general consenous that you can slow play sets, when Ciaffone basically says not to? In Pot limit and no limit poker, he says its generally not a good idea to slow play sets. So why is there a difference in opinion?

BlueBear · #6 05-20-2004, 11:56 PM

It depends largely on the stack sizes. I believe that Ciaffone may be pointing out that by betting it straight away (without slowplaying a set), you may have the oppurtunity to reraise if an opponent raises. This gets an opponent much more pot-committed and harder to fold. If the stack sizes are large, this may be the best way to get your opponent in.

Assuming small stack sizes (like in PP NL), a check raise may be sufficient to get your whole opponent pot-committed. This is not necessarily so if the stacks are much larger.

I may be completely wrong with this advise though.

z32fanatic · #7 05-21-2004, 12:22 AM

This one was about 20 minutes ago.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed)

UTG+1 ($$59.25)
MP1 ($$356.15)
MP2 ($$247.05)
Hero ($$74.50)
CO ($$41)
Button ($$234.70)
SB ($$198.90)
BB ($$38)
UTG ($$111.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises to $4, MP2 folds, Hero calls $4, CO folds, Button calls $4, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($19) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets $6, UTG calls $6, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $15, Button calls $9, UTG calls $9.

I had a pretty good read on the button and was almost positive he would bet as he has many other times when checked to him. I'm hoping for the K of hearts here because I think UTG is on a flush draw and the button may have a K.

Turn: ($64) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) 
UTG checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

The perfect card. Here I checked hoping a heart would fall and make someone's one card flush so I can crush them.

River: ($64) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players) 
UTG bets $10, Hero raises to $30, Button folds, UTG raises to $54, Hero calls $24.

Good. UTG was slowplaying a flush and now I can cash in.

Final Pot: $172
Main Pot: $172, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by UTG ($172).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows 4c Kc (full house, kings full of fours).
Hero shows 7c 7d (full house, sevens full of kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $172.

JrJordan · #8 05-21-2004, 03:34 AM

Seems to be the theme of the night...

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

UTG+1 ($21.60)
MP1 ($20.35)
MP2 ($24.50)
MP3 ($90.80)
CO ($10.50)
Button ($37.50)
SB ($42.90)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($45.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.50, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($2.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($2.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets $2.4, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $2.40, MP3 folds, SB folds.

River: ($7.30) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Hero bets $6.95, UTG+1 raises to $18.7 (All-In), Hero calls $11.75.

Final Pot: $44.70

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ad 6s (full house, sixes full of aces).
UTG+1 shows Jh Jc (full house, jacks full of sixes).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $44.70.

LA_Price · #9 05-21-2004, 05:46 AM

I'd probably check as you did praying that he has AK or AQ. Except i'd probably bet out at the pot or go for a check raise probably up to about $15. I make the same move sometimes with top pair weak kicker or a draw(usually in smaller pots) so opponents have seen this from me before. Does anyone else play it like this?

I'd probably bet the pot on the turn and grumpily call(maybe fold but highly unlikely) if he raised me all-in.

I slowplay sets sometimes but usually when I'm probably so far ahead that theres nothing they'll call with. For example if I had 99 on a 973 flop I'd probaly slowplay in hopes that someone picks up two pair or even top pair on the turn. Most opponents can't laydown tptk so I like to try to start committing their stack on the flop.