Slow play was the wrong way... a little Presto magic!

DogRockets · #1 05-17-2004, 04:51 AM

Having a feeding frenzy at Party Empire this weekend. UTG+1,UTG+2 & MP1 are typical solid players, MP3 is playing and showing down almost every hand, CO is loose/passive as are the blinds. Table is very loose with some nice pots being built mostly by MP3. Unfortunately, MP3 decides to fold for maybe the 2nd time tonight. Was counting on a least 1 raise from him (sigh) [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players) 
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB
Main Pot: 19.25 BB, between MP1, CO and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (19.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
MP1 shows As Kd (one pair, aces).
CO shows Qh 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
Hero shows 5c 5s (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.25 BB. 

The slowplay by the CO with 2 pair and MP1 with TPTK allows me to hang in there and chase this pot which I would normally drop after the flop. I think the hand demonstrates the potential for small pocket pairs which a lot of people shy away from. MP3 was sadly missed at the river as this is where he would normally raise MP1's bet to try and force CO and Hero to fold. Had MP3 stayed, this hand had the the potential of a 30BB payoff.

ThePopinjay · #2 05-17-2004, 04:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Having a feeding frenzy at Party Empire this weekend. UTG+1,UTG+2 & MP1 are typical solid players, MP3 is playing and showing down almost every hand, CO is loose/passive as are the blinds. Table is very loose with some nice pots being built mostly by MP3. Unfortunately, MP3 decides to fold for maybe the 2nd time tonight. Was counting on a least 1 raise from him (sigh) [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (14.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7 players) 
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB
Main Pot: 19.25 BB, between MP1, CO and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (19.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
MP1 shows As Kd (one pair, aces).
CO shows Qh 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
Hero shows 5c 5s (three of a kind, fives).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.25 BB. 

The slowplay by the CO with 2 pair and MP1 with TPTK allows me to hang in there and chase this pot which I would normally drop after the flop. I think the hand demonstrates the potential for small pocket pairs which a lot of people shy away from. MP3 was sadly missed at the river as this is where he would normally raise MP1's bet to try and force CO and Hero to fold. Had MP3 stayed, this hand had the the potential of a 30BB payoff.

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn call seems pretty loose to me.

exist · #3 05-17-2004, 06:06 AM

i think the flop call is a little loose as you still have 3 people to act after you who might raise (and then the preflop raiser might 3-bet), but maybe implied odds can cushion this.

the turn call is bad. you have worse odds and less players and streets to take advantage of if you catch. i think you made the most you could possibly hope to make on the river and the turn call was still a -EV play.

Joe Tall · #4 05-17-2004, 08:30 AM

Preflop: Fine.

Flop: The call is razor thin you're getting 16.5:1 on a 22.5:1 shot. If you can get one caller behind you and no check-raise; your implied odds are good.. I'd make in on this board as set would be good to win and you are sure to gain enough bets considering the number of aggressive players.

Turn: You turn call is horrible. You will lose a lot of money like this when making this call without odds.

The slowplay by the CO with 2 pair and MP1 with TPTK allows me to hang in there and chase this pot which I would normally drop after the flop.

What?? Looks like the CO is a loose passive that likes to call. That is not a slow play.

I think the hand demonstrates the potential for small pocket pairs which a lot of people shy away from

It demostrates how they had potential and then be grossly overplayed.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

BigEndian · #5 05-17-2004, 08:32 AM

n/m must drink coffee.

- Jim

TxSteve · #6 05-17-2004, 09:20 AM

i gotta agree with everyone...

you chased..and you caught..but that's about it

there's no way i'm seeing the turn (and certainly not the river) with this

fluff · #7 05-17-2004, 10:53 AM

Flop call is marginal, turn call is absolutely stupid.

[ QUOTE ]
The slowplay by the CO with 2 pair and MP1 with TPTK allows me to hang in there and chase this pot which I would normally drop after the flop. I think the hand demonstrates the potential for small pocket pairs which a lot of people shy away from.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, your fishy play and complete unawareness of pot odds is what allowed you to hang in there. This hand does not demonstrate the potential of small pairs, it demonstrates that you can suck out if you catch your two outer on the river. You were getting 10:1 on a 22:1 shot at the turn, and actually paying that is the true hallmark of a fish.

Warik · #8 05-17-2004, 11:13 AM

Great hand! I'd play the exact same way. In fact, I'd probably throw in a semi-bluff raise on the turn.

So... is DogRockets your name on Party......? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

arkady · #9 05-17-2004, 11:26 AM

lol, thats just mean Warik! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Joe Tall · #10 05-17-2004, 11:39 AM

there's no way i'm seeing the turn (and certainly not the river) with this

You should conisder calling the flop as a set of 5s would likely be the best hand on the turn. You are getting 16.5:1 immediately and have two opponents, if another were to come and you turn your set, you'll easily make up the bets you are missing on the flop.

Peace,
Joe Tall