Fold the flop?

sthief09 · #1 05-11-2004, 12:50 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5.
UTG folds, MP calls, CO (poster) checks, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB folds, MP folds, CO folds, Hero 3-bets, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB
Main Pot: 7.50 BB, between Hero and SB. > Pot won by Hero (7.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Ad 5c (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero shows 3c 3h (full house, sixes full of threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.50 BB. 

I think I would've rather not won that pot [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

BugsBunny · #2 05-11-2004, 01:00 PM

I probably check behind on the turn and call a river bet. If he c/r me on the turn I would not be very happy at all. At this point I figure SB either has the quads, has another pp (almost sure to be better than mine) or is overplaying an Ax of some kind.

He's unlikely to fold any of those, and if he has Ax and he pairs on the river (or paired on the turn) so be it. I'm willing to showdown my hand, but want to do it as cheaply as possible.

BeerMoney · #3 05-11-2004, 01:04 PM

Thief, How do you feel about raising those small pocket pairs on the button? I like it cause it will often give me a "free card" on the flop if I miss, but if I hit, I have a nice big pot to hammer away at.

I think you played it ok. I'll be interested to hear what others say.

BeerMoney

PS, how were exams?

BugsBunny · #4 05-11-2004, 01:16 PM

I didn't state this in my previous reply, but in most cases I actually fold this hand preflop (in 6 handed games), unless I was first in on the BT - and then I would open-raise. You usually don't get enough players to make it worth playing.

Now if one of the players is the type to pay you off big if you do hit then it's a different story.

Raising with this hand with other players already in is usually a bad idea and will lose you money in the long run. This changes with a full-ring and a family pot (or close to it) type situation.

Little Fishy · #5 05-11-2004, 01:47 PM

If SB had a pair T's or up he would have raised pre flop to try and get the pot shorter handed. If he had 4 of a kind he might have re-reraised the flop, or at least his check on fourth would have been a checkraise to which you would have had to have folded unless you had a good beat on his betting stratagy. I think it's pretty apparent that SB has over cards, probably off suit and not to high or else he would have raised preflop. I'd say he has something from KJ down to T9 or any combo of gaps in between. He might have Ax and there's a slight chance he has 77, 88 or 99 and fears you have a higher over pair, but i doubt it. I think you have this pot in the bag unless something higher than an 8 hits. I think now you have to figure out how to get the most $ out of him.

-Little Fishy

Haupt_234 · #6 05-11-2004, 02:34 PM

I'm gonna go against what everyone is saying and would have played it the same way. After your flop 3-bet, the sb is committed to calling down with most likely high cards.

You flopped a boat and there are few hands that are ahead of you, many of them which weren't represented by sb preflop.

I play it the same.

Haupt_234

sthief09 · #7 05-11-2004, 02:40 PM

it's funny I got replies to this. I just posted it because the flop was 666 and that's just weird.

but I'll defend my play anyway....

- quads does not check-raise the field
- PP should bet out the flop to protect his hand from being checked around

that is why I knew I was ahead on the flop and presumably the turn. I checked the river because there was a chance he paired his kicker or played something better than my hand weirdly, and given all my aggression, I didn't think it was likely he'd call the river bet with A-high.

IMO, checking the turn is absolutely terrible. there's no way I can afford to give my opponent a free card to catch any of his 6 outs. I'd rather bet the turn and check behind on the river than check the turn and call a river bet, or bet and have my opponent fold when he misses. I think he's making a mistake by calling the turn given the pot size, so I don't mind that he calls a bet, but I wouldn't mind him folding either.

pre-flop, in an aggressive game, on the button, with 2 people having entered the pot, you'd have to pay me to muck.

sthief09 · #8 05-11-2004, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PS, how were exams?

[/ QUOTE ]

terrible, but I have one more to screw up before the summer starts. thanks for asking.

I also don't like the idea of raising preflop here. the table was aggressive and people seemed to enjoy betting into preflop raisers.

StellarWind · #9 05-11-2004, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
that is why I knew I was ahead on the flop and presumably the turn. I checked the river because there was a chance he paired his kicker or played something better than my hand weirdly, and given all my aggression, I didn't think it was likely he'd call the river bet with A-high.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should bet the river. You're an aggressive player and I'm going to give him some credit for noticing that. If I were in his shoes and remembered your preflop limp, I'd be very suspicious that my ace or flush was good.

Of course given the sixes I expect to see 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Haupt_234 · #10 05-11-2004, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I checked the river because there was a chance he paired his kicker or played something better than my hand weirdly, and given all my aggression, I didn't think it was likely he'd call the river bet with A-high.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should have bet out the turn, since he will most likely call you with higher cards hoping to pair. You can't be afraid of a single overcard hitting during HU play, and you should take the chance at betting the river in hopes that he will call.

Haupt_234