Kerry Disrespects Catholic Church on Easter

[GWB]

The Story

The Story from the Jayson Blair Times

The question is not which position is right or wrong, the question is:

Should Kerry respect the rights of the Church to have Standards?

Should he thumb his nose at them?

W

[ThaSaltCracka]

What Kerry thinks and does represent how many Catholics in America think. I love how most people think of Catholics as tight, moralistic conservatives. I think Catholics, especially modern Catholics in America, are very open minded progressive thinking people. The recent molestation scandal in America has made many Catholics skeptical about the leadership of the American Catholic church.

Also for those of you on here who think religious people are fanatics who follow the specific doctrine of their faith, John Kerry is a perfect example of of someone who doesn't.... and there are millions of people just like him in America.

[Ray Zee]

you are right about modern catholics. but the church is still a sick institution that preys on its members who still cling to the hope of salvation or something or other from them.
bush is the scary one who trys to live in the past and foist his views on the world.

[GWB]

[ QUOTE ]
you are right about modern catholics. but the church is still a sick institution that preys on its members who still cling to the hope of salvation or something or other from them.
bush is the scary one who trys to live in the past and foist his views on the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

After this post and yesterday's "Good and Evil" post it seems that you have a big problem with the Catholic Church. What gives?

No one is forcing you to deal with the Catholic Church, what makes you an expert on it?

Do you really blame the whole Church for every evil thing done by an employee or associate?

If a sexual predator is an atheist, we don't paint all atheists responsible for him. If he works for GM, we don't blame GM for producing criminals.

In what way is the Catholic Church a sick institution?

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
but the church is still a sick institution that preys on its members who still cling to the hope of salvation or something or other from them.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Church is so sick, that just yesterday the demented and manipulative Pope was calling for an end to violence in Iraq and the rest of the middle east.

Listen, you and several other posters on here focusing on all the negatives that are in religion. I am not here to deny that those exists, but I will say that those negatives represent a very small portion of Christians today.

There are people in the Catholic church and community who oppose abortion. The have every right in the fuckin world to have that opinion. I do agree that they also don't have the right to force that opinion on others. But you seem to conclude that the church has a strangle grip on its parishners around the world, and that simply isn't true. There are HUGE differences between the cardinals and bishops in the Vatican and the cardinals and bishops around the world. There are various cultural and socioeconimic reasons for these differences. Do you think that a Bishop or priest in Brazil is preaching the same thing as a priest in France or England or the Phillipines or Butte Montana?
The only common denominator is thr core beliefs in God and the sacramants.

I am constantly seeing people paint the Catholic faith with a broad brush, assuming we are all sovreigns of the Pope. We all must follow what the pope says or else. Thats bullshit! Parishners listen to their priests first and foremost, and I can tell you the Priests have a much better understanding of their followers than the Pope does.

[MMMMMM]

The Catholic Church has profited greatly from its members over the centuries and has amassed enormous wealth.

I will tell you one thing that disturbs me, though I cannot claim myself to be better.

When I see the Pope, or Bishops, arrayed in gold brocades; when I think of the wealth the Church has amassed; when I think of the Church embroiled in lawsuits, trying to hold onto its wealth, even against rightful claims: I think of the Gospels, and of the conversation between Jesus and the rich man.

From the Gospel of Mark, Chapter X:

13 And they brought yong children to him, that he should touch them, and his disciples rebuked those that brought them.

14 But when Jesus saw it, hee was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto mee, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdome of God.

15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdome of God as a little childe, he shall not enter therein.

16 And hee took them up in his armes, and put his handes on them, and blessed them.

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good master, what shall I doe, that I may inherit eternall life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is no man good, but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Doe not commit adulterie, Doe not kill, Doe not steale, Doe not beare false wtnesse, Defraud not, Honour thy father, and mother.

20 And hee answered, and said unto him, Master, all these things have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him, loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: Goe thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poore, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven, and come, take up the crosse and follow me.

22 And hee was sad at that saying, and went away grieved : for hee had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God?

24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth againe, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches, to enter into the kingdom of God?

25 It is easier for a camel to goe through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?

27 And Jesus looking upon them, saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God : for with God all things are possible.


And so, GWB: When I see the institution and possessions of the Catholic Church, I cannot help but think that the Church is more like unto the rich man, rather than the disciples, who left everything they had, in order to follow Jesus. Why does the Pope wear a jeweled gold crown? Why are so many arrayed in gold brocade? Why does the Church lay up untold millions, instead of giving that money to the poor, and dress instead in plain clothes, and follow Jesus' example and his teachings?

Again I'm not saying I am any better, and no offense meant, but I think those making a career or life's work of expounding the teachings of Jesus might themselves follow his examples and teachings as well.

Also something else disturbs me about the Church: Jesus is supposed to be head of the Church--not the Pope or anyone else. If they are true Christians then let them be Christians, with only Jesus as their Lord. And have we not seen recently the evils and corruption attendant with giving men authority in the Church? The hierarchy should not exist; there should be no chain of command: for a true Christian, only Jesus should have authority in the Church.

The institution of the Catholic Church can choose between selling all that it has (or at least most of its great laid away riches), and giving to the poor, and taking up its cross and following Jesus; or it can continue being a rich man, unwilling to relinquish its hold on wealth and power, unwilling to give everything to the spirit and the teachings of Jesus, and not truly entering into the kingdom of God--for God is a spirit.

[Ray Zee]

i respect everyones right to have their own beliefs whether i agree or not. i have some strange ones at that. what i do not condone is the organization that is corrupted. the individuals are fine. the church has commited criminal acts by concealing child molesting. and many of its priests have gotten away with it or just been slapped on the wrist in stead of going to prison. this is not acceptable in my book. it has nothing to do with an individuals practice of religion.

for your example if employees of gm were commiting crimes by doing something to the cars that ultimately killed or hurt people then concealed it, i would jump on their butts the same way. they would then be criminals as well.
i remember the exploding gas tanks and the cover up that ford did. with the idea that they would lose less money on a few lawsuits for the deaths than the cost of recalling and fixing the cars. those top dogs should still be rotting in jail instead of sitting on millions.

and i dont blame the church for what some employees did, i blame them for what they did as they found out what was happening.

[craig r]

i would def. agree with you on a lot of catholics becoming progressive in the u.s. when i marched in boston against the war, there were so many catholics there (of course there are so many catholics in boston). and in latin america catholics are usually on the left (before they are shot...ala Romero) as well. and i definetely understand where you are coming from. i am jewish (don't practice or believe it) and if the topic of israel ever comes up around me, my friends will sometimes not tell me their thoughts on it. but, if they think because i am jewish i am zionist or support that state (or any state for that matter) then they are making a sweeping generalization about all jews (in fact there are many jews who are very active against the state of israel; i.e. act as human shields, etc...).

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
and i dont blame the church for what some employees did, i blame them for what they did as they found out what was happening.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you. If the Pope wasn't as old as he is, I don't think you would have seen the same results though.
IMO, that is what is wrong with the Catholic Church. They need new younger Pope, one with some energy and passion.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Again I'm not saying I am any better, and no offense meant, but I think those making a career or life's work of expounding the teachings of Jesus might themselves follow his examples and teachings as well.


[/ QUOTE ]
99.9% of Catholic priests never live a life like the Pope. Many preach in poor communities, living in a house next to the church they preach in. I agree that clearly the Pope, cardinals and bishops live in somewhat luxury, but again, most priests do not.

BTW, look a little closer at some of the Baptists, Methodists, and Evanglical preachers down south if you want to see those "doing Gods work" living in immense luxury. Or look at the Mormom church and many of their business endeavors.

Much of the wealth associated with the Catholic church is old money from land owned in Europe. Almost all of the money now comes from church donations. But I do agree with you that there is something disgusting about the wealth associated with the Church and the Vatican.

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus is supposed to be head of the Church--not the Pope or anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]
No the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. Jesus is the main focus of the Christian faith.

[ QUOTE ]
The hierarchy should not exist; there should be no chain of command: for a true Christian, only Jesus should have authority in the Church.

[/ QUOTE ]
If this was the case, there wouldn't be any main leader in the faith. Thus there would probably be regional priests pushing an agenda they want, skewing the works of Christ, as well as the text of the bible. This reminds me of somewhere........