Flop a Full House and lose to....

FreeRoll Limit HE tourney on America's Cardroom.


Only 6 left at the table and Im in LP (2 behind the button) get 5c5s in the pocket and it's called to me. I call. LP behind me bets and everyone folds - I call again. (we're at $100/200 at this point).


Flop comes and it's a monster for me:


544 - rainbow.


LP bets and I call.


I never really have position on this guy to check raise to see exactly where he's going - so I just keep calling his bets. I'm thinking that this guy can't possibly be on 4's as re pre-flop raised - so I got him on a high pair maybe he's on K's or Q's. Even if the dog did PF raise with 4's I figure I'm just in for a bad beat here - but highly unlikely.


River comes:


Ad.


Ouch - now that could hurt. I didn't put the guy on Aces, but at this point anything is possible. It's hard to tell where he's at as we've been on a showdown since pre-flop so I assume he's going to bet again.


Of course, he bets.


Now am I nuts here? I'm not even thinking about NOT calling - hell, in fact it's all i can do not to re-raise the guy.


At any rate I call - and low and behold he flashes the 2 big dogs and hammers my flopped 5/4 full house with his A/4 full house.


Clearly, I'm in the lead the entire way on this hand and I can't see how I could have played it any differently given that it was a showdown from the get-go.


I guess my only questions are:


1. Should I have had this guy on A's and if so:

2. Should I have folded on the river and saved myself an all-in call and thus the tourney?


ARGHHH!!!

Sorry - turn was a 6d - thought I stuck that in there - not that it really mattered...

I can't see how I could have played it any differently given that it was a showdown from the get-go.


I can. You flopped a full-house and didn't bet it once. You should have bet the flop. He would have raised. Then you 3-bet him. If he 4-bets, you 5-bet. On the turn, should bet into him again. If he raises, you 3-bet. You should have been pumping money into this pot as fast as possible.


In the late stages of a limit tournament, I expect AA would have gone to the showdown. However, in a ring game, a good player should have been able to fold his Aces by the turn.

You shouldn't have had a decision on the River, you should have been all-in by the turn with

I have to agree with Dynasty here -- You should have been betting/raising like a madman. Wouldn't have made a difference in this hand, but this hand had better not be representative of your usual play.

Good thing I am egotistical and read my own posts. What I meant to say was....


You should have been all-in by the turn with less than 3.5 BB at the start of the hand. You can't wait for quads to push your hand. Short stacked in a tourney this is the best flop you can hope for anytime soon, so expect to double up here...or go home. That's how it works out.


Treefrog

I don't know if I necessarily agree in this case. When you get this close to all-in, there's value in stringing your opponent along for as long as possibly with a hand like this that I wouldn't feel any real need to protect. Raising a lot early on might have made your opponent fold, which would be -EV here. So he made a two-outer - life's tough sometimes.


(Caveat - I'm not a tournament player, so there might be some subtlety here I'm missing, but if I'm short-stacked in a ring game and this happens, I'd play it the same way.)

I tend to agree with white elephant (though I as well am more of a ring gamer than a tourney player).


If this isn't the sort of scenerio where one would string an opponent along, then what is? Why risk making the guy fold when at BEST he's a little better than an 11-1 dog against you (assuming he has an overpair).


If the prevailing advice I'm hearing is correct then one should only slow-play heads up with nothing less than a str8 flush, quads, or possibly an Aces full full house?


That can't be right, can it? If it is then i best read some tourney strategy books before i donate another solitary nickle to a tourney entry fee.


: )

The key here is that your opponent raised pre-flop and therefore can be expected to have a good hand- hopefully an overpair. You aren't playing it fast hoping to get your opponent to fold. You're playing it fast to maximize your profit.

When you are short-stacked they think they "have to" call to try and knock you out. That is not always correct like they might think, but that isn't really the point.


I have seen it so commonly that I have to stand by this as a fact: They are incredibly more likely to call you when you are short stacked.


Treefrog