Easy Lay Down?

Schaefer · #1 03-31-2004, 02:09 AM

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $3.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO (poster) calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, CO calls, UTG calls.

Yep, yep... loose raise but the table had been fairly aggressive and I didn't have the UTG or UTG+1 on much of a hand. Throw in the dead money of the poster and it's a raiser baby! WHOOPS, UTG+1 pulls the limp re-raise ! He's been kind of tricky so I don't know what to think. For the time I put him on AA, KK, or AK and reluctantly call 1 more SB and hope I like the flop.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, CO folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Not exactly the monster flop I wanted but I have to raise to see where I'm at. 3-bet and I'm outta here . Ok, he thinks for a long time and just calls. Now I "know" he has AK and will pay off like a slot machine !

Turn: (8.66 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Pay me, pay me!

River: (10.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

UGH. Is there as worse card that could have fallen? Then he bets into me! Is there a hand I can beat? Easiest fold in the world? Now who's the slot machine ! All I can hear is Major Kong yelling in my ear, "making big folds is not winning low-limit poker!" But ya know, I don't even think this counts as a big fold. How big should the pot be before it counts as a big fold? This is me saying my hand is a 99-1 dog and I'm only getting 11.66-1 on my money and GoT told me that crying calls are not allowed ! Moral of the story... I suck !

The goal of this post... flame me ! Every street, what did I do wrong , what did I do right? Who makes this call on the end? Who mucks it preflop? Who's the worst player in the world? ME!

Final Pot: 12.66 BB
Main Pot: 12.66 BB, between Hero and UTG+1.

colson10 · #2 03-31-2004, 02:24 AM

I don't think a limp reraise coming from utg+1, after utg limps, screams big pair. I find this is usually a mid pair or big suited connectors trying to juice the pot if they hit. I think J33 is a great flop for you, the K on the riv sucks but I definitely pay him off.
It is a loose raise preflop, and if utg or utg+1 are that tight, i probably do muck it preflop. Also, I think you said it was an aggressive table, and AJo is not the hand i like to be holding in that situation

Alobar · #3 03-31-2004, 02:34 AM

I don't like the raise PF....and if its an aggresive table I think about mucking it.

Flop and turn are standard

River, if you have a good read on him that he never bluffs, I think you can lay it down, against an unknown I pay them off because I think you drag it at least 10% of the time

Schaefer · #4 03-31-2004, 02:43 AM

Colson,

Thanks for the analysis. I guess I was too quick to put him on a big hand. After he just called my flop raise obviously I re-evaluated things.

UTG and UTG+1 weren't real tight, just aggressive. I raised the AJo because I find that on average it's better than the holdings of the 4 random hands I'm up against(2 limpers, poster, and BB). Usually I actually just call here, mucking if I don't feel like I have control at the table but I've been trying to get more aggressive and this seemed like a good spot preflop.

I still think it's an easy fold on the end when he's been check calling and then bets into me on the river. What in the world could he have that I beat when he bets into me?
Thanks again.

Schaefer

Schaefer · #5 03-31-2004, 02:48 AM

OK, that's 2 votes for Schaefer picking a bad spot for preflop aggression. It was an aggressive player but like I said before I ain't scurred of a few limpers and a CO poster. Maybe I should be?

AND, it's 2 votes for paying off on the river. I am hating myself right now for doing just that. Am I way off base here?

Schaefer

Alobar · #6 03-31-2004, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I raised the AJo because I find that on average it's better than the holdings of the 4 random hands I'm up against(2 limpers, poster, and BB).

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't say that UTG and UTG+1 have random hands, any half way decent player isn't playing random hands from EP, hes playing better than average cards.

and with the river call, you gotta think big picture. It's not about THIS hand. If you think he wouldnt bluff in this spot at least 1 time out of 10, then fold. If you think he would, then you call.

The Bear · #7 03-31-2004, 03:09 AM

Schaefer,

Post-flop, I would played it exactly the same way. Preflop, I would vary my play between limping and raising. I would also never muck my hand in that spot preflop.

The Bear

umdpoker · #8 03-31-2004, 05:29 AM

he could have aq,tt,99 depending on his 3-bet standards. i think aq is a definite possibility. if i'm holding aq and that k hits the river, i really think about betting to get a jack to fold. this is assuming i think the player is capable of folding here.

Schaefer · #9 03-31-2004, 03:25 PM

That's the main point I'm trying to hash out. I really think that only real tricky part about the hand is the call on the river. I really felt "positive" that I was beat but I think I've heard enough arguments to sway me toward making the call here. Thanks to all who helped and I now feel more confident about my play of the hand.

Schaefer

Ralph Wiggum · #10 03-31-2004, 03:40 PM

OK, I'm missing something, cuz I don't see how people are reasoning that UTG+1 mid-PP or sooooted-connectors. Maybe he has AQ or QQ, but I think you're analysis, Schaefer, of him having AA, KK, or AK is on the money. However, I think I pay this guy off everytime on the river. The last thing you want if for people to see you folding to a scary river card, it'll cause people to start bluffing at you to steal pots. Also I raise AJ if I think I can buy the button. BTW I quote you saying 3-bet and I'm outta here. Did you mean you'd fold on the flop after a 3-bet, or fold when he bets after a blank hits on the turn?