20-40 hand

[Clarkmeister]

UTG limps. UTG is best described as "college kid who plays with his buddies and maybe plays casino poker once in a blue moon" No real read on him yet, he seems a little loose and not overly aggressive.

I then raise with ThTd. Folded to the BB. BB is an sporadically aggressive, but thinking guy who is a little fishy. He 3-bets. This means something pretty decent, not necessarily just AA and KK but those are definitely possible. UTG coldcalls, I 4-bet and both call. 3 to the flop for 6.25BBs.

Flop: Js 7c 3d. BB checks, UTG now bets.

[MRBAA]

You raised and took it from there?

[Nightwish]

Hmmm....no real draws out there. Does UTG have AJ? Since you're not going to lay it down, I would raise and put some pressure on the BB. I'd like to see him fold his AK/AQ, if that's what he has. If he calls two cold or (gulp) re-raises, you're almost certainly beat. Same if UTG re-raises.

[Clarkmeister]

Maybe, maybe not. I'm looking for thoughts.

[Ulysses]

I don't think it really matters here. UTG probably has either a small/medium pocket pair or something like JTs. Maybe a set, I guess. BB is either going for a checkraise or he's not.

I think folding is fine. I think raising is fine. I think calling and seeing if BB was going for a checkraise is fine. By default, I'd raise, unless I thought UTG probably has a Jack, in which case I'd fold.

What I find more interesting is the fact that at this very moment I'm eating mashed potatoes with chopsticks.

[cwl]

i would probably raise the flop hoping to get BB to fold AK or AQ if thats what he's got and hoping to get to a cheap showdown against the bettors very likely J. if the BB check raises the both of us i think he would have probably convinced me that he has a big pair but at that point i would call the 1 additional bet hoping for a T and likely fold the turn to a bet, especially if UTG is coming along for all that betting.

if the BB folds and UTG doesnt 3 bet i would be planning to bet the turn check the river or check the turn call the river, depending a bit on how UTG plays and how much of a wuss i feel like.

if UTG 3 bets or leads the turn i would wish really really hard that he hadnt done that.

[Joe Tall]

That's one very uncoorinated board and a lot of preflop action for UTG to just bet into the preflop 4-better. I think I have to give him credit for a Jack here and fold.

If there is any doubt that he is capable of taking a stab here, it's an easy raise this is tough without a read.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[mike l.]

"Flop: Js 7c 3d. BB checks, UTG now bets."

you lose. but you dont fold cause your backdoor this and that and some joker 4 bet it with TT so now there's 13.5 bets in there. call, but be ready to press eject on the turn.

please dont tell me you raised cause that just stinks.

[bunky9590]

All right Clarky, let me have a crack at it.

With UTG not being overly aggressive and a "college kid" I would like to know if he is acpable of laying down a Jack there to a preflop 4 bet and a flop raise with something like QJ or JT, if he is, I pop him one more time on the flop. If BB check raises, I fold. If Kid calls, I take the free card on the turn and check it through if he's a calling station, if I think he'll lay it down there, I bet again. If he calls the turn I check behind on the river fully expecting to see a Jack.

[mike l.]

"i would probably raise the flop hoping to get BB to fold AK or AQ if thats what he's got and hoping to get to a cheap showdown against the bettors very likely J."

okay ive read this twice now in this thread and i just felt responsible to step in and point out:

--a pair of Js beats a pair of Ts.

--putting in 2 or 3 bets on this flop w/ TT given the action is terrible losing poker.

--getting bb to fold AK or AQ sure helps utg with his pair of jacks and im sure he'll be grateful but it doesnt help hero at all because

--a pair of jacks STILL beats a pair of tens!

sometimes i really wonder what you kids are smoking.