A 20-40 hand for Clarkmeister

[Analyst]

9 handed, great B&M game, several very loose players. I've been getting rotten cards (now there's a shocker [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ), so have played very, very few hands. The couple that I've played, though, have won at showdown. This combination has not gotten lost on table, and I'm trying to open up my game a bit, leading to . . .

One of the very loose players open-raises in UTG+1. I've seen him raise with Q2s, so this doesn't mean much; despite his looseness, he's willing to lay a hand down post flop. It's folded to me in MP, and I 3-bet with 33. Normally I'd muck this in a heartbeat, but figured that I had a chance to get heads-up, then duke it out post-flop. Folded to the blinds, and as the two next-tightest players at the table they very obligingly fold also.

Flop is AQx. He bets, I raise (gulp!), he calls.

Turn is x. He checks, I bet, he calls.

River is K. He checks, I . . . check. Mistake? I figured that I'd already given him two chances to fold, and he didn't so wasn't likely to now. Also figured that somewhere in AKQ he must have hit something , no?

He shows AKs to take the pot! He and several others said that they'd put me on AA, no question about it, but that with TPTK he had to call me down.

So, a reckless, 3.5BB misadventure with a hand that should never have seen the light of day? Or a reasonable step towards the next level, just not one destined to win in this case?

[Garland]

Hi Analyst,

One of the reasons I 3-bet with marginal pairs (or AK) is to see the reaction of the raising player when it comes back to him. Will he cap? (signals bigger pocker pair or sometimes AK). Occasionally, there are the gambler types who like to cap it with any two cards, but even the maniacs should respect solid players who haven't played in some time.

Now if he simply calls your 3-bet and bets into at the flop with AQx and you just have a lowly pair of 3s, dump it. It's not worth the trouble. If he can bet into you after you've shown all that aggression pre-flop, just get rid of it before you leak away all that money. You're not moving him away from that pair of As!!

Garland

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Analyst,

One of the reasons I 3-bet with marginal pairs (or AK) is to see the reaction of the raising player when it comes back to him. Will he cap? (signals bigger pocker pair or sometimes AK). Occasionally, there are the gambler types who like to cap it with any two cards, but even the maniacs should respect solid players who haven't played in some time.

Now if he simply calls your 3-bet and bets into at the flop with AQx and you just have a lowly pair of 3s, dump it. It's not worth the trouble. If he can bet into you after you've shown all that aggression pre-flop, just get rid of it before you leak away all that money. You're not moving him away from that pair of As!!

Garland

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said. Imagine for a second, analyst, that you have KK in this spot and the loose player did the same thing. after your 3 bet and your table image, would you continue to play your hand as you did? or woudl you have simply called him down? what would you do in this spot with a legitimate hand given the knowledge of your opponent and your description.

since you said "despite his looseness preflop" he still lays down, it is reasonable to assume his betting and calling mean something postflop. against a normal playing opponent you would fold kk here because it is just too likely hes got any ace and its not worth it in this pot. WORST case scenario you can play like you did (but check the turn) trying to showdown cheaply.

but the point is, your tightness and 3bet will sometimes turn a loose player into a normal player!!! ive seen it happen before and its not totally unreasonable....now CHRONIC loosies are a different story. and one for another post.

well said garland and good luck analyst.
-Barron

[Steve Giufre]

33 isn't big enough, and there are far too many people yet to act behind you. This just wasn't the flop you were looking for, I would give up when he leads into you. Any how at least you checked the river. If he called the turn, there is zero chance is laying down for one bet on the river.

[Bartholow]

33 just isn't good enough preflop IMHO. You'd be better off calling and hoping to get enough action to justify a set in this "very good game", but even better off just folding.

After the flop, the other guys are basically right that when he leads, you aren't going to get him off whatever hand he has. The only exception to this is if he is making the book play of bluffing the ace after being 3 bet in hopes of getting you to lay down a big pocket pair. But not likely enough to make it worth trying to take this pot off him probably. Wait for better spots.

[tpir90036]

i think it's very reasonable if and only if he is the type of player who can lay it down post-flop....which you said he was [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] if he only had 2nd pair on the same AQx flop, woud he muck it on the turn giving you credit for an ace? if so, then it's a fine play as long as it's used sparingly. it seems like you had the perfect image to pull something like this off if he had gotten a smaller piece with a lesser hand. you just got a little unlucky.

once he called you on the turn it's time to not put a single penny more into the pot unless you brutally spike a 3.