JJ vs undercards

steeser · #1 03-17-2004, 01:05 PM

Mid stages of a 200+15 Party sit and go. Blinds are 25/50, and I have about 1600, 3rd at the table. I get JJ UTG+1 and raise it to 200. MP bigger stack calls, and the rest fold. Flop comes down 985 with two diamonds (I don't have a diamond).

How do you proceed?

I put him on AQ, or AJ, and maybe a mid-small pair. I pushed as I wanted to take it down there, and he called with 99 for top set and I was out.

If you bet out small or pot sized, what do you do if he comes over the top? Curious if anyone can get away from this and how.

kerssens · #2 03-17-2004, 01:50 PM

I'd bet the pot, the problem is with the top set and his position he's probably going to just call, so if it got to the turn I'd likely not put any more chips in the pot...JJ is a hand that gives me a lot of trouble but that's in mostly $5, $10, $20 SnG's, most of the time the players in the $200 will not call a flop like that if they don't have a strong hand.

Prickly Pete · #3 03-17-2004, 02:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
most of the time the players in the $200 will not call a flop like that if they don't have a strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you might be surprised at what some of these folks will call with. Most know what they're doing, but I've seen some awfully loose play at times.

kerssens · #4 03-17-2004, 02:27 PM

Yeah, there are always some in the crowd...I'm continually amazed at how people would pay to play and have complete disregard for their money and time. I guess some of it depends on where you're coming from....$200 means more to me as a college student than to others...eh

CrisBrown · #5 03-17-2004, 02:28 PM

Hi steeser,

I think this is one of those "uggh" hands. You raised pre-flop, and you have an overpair on the flop, so you have to bet it. A pot-sized raise is more than 1/3 of your stack, so you may end up pot-committed, even if you don't push in here. And as another respondent already said, if you bet the pot at this flop, an opponent with 99 is probably going to smooth call, leaving you guessing.

In short, I don't think this is a hand you're going to get away from unless something VERY scary hits at the turn, and more than likely you're going to bust with an overpair vs. a concealed set.

Cris

CrisBrown · #6 03-17-2004, 02:34 PM

Hi kerrsens,

[ QUOTE ]
most of the time the players in the $200 will not call a flop like that if they don't have a strong hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oddly, I disagree but not because they're stupid. Most of the $215 players won't call an all-in without the goods, and in this situation where the money was fairly shallow, they wouldn't call a pot-sized bet without strength. But when the money is deeper, they may well call at this flop, intending to bluff-raise at the turn. So you can end up seeing some very strange hands played at these levels, not (usually) because the players are maniacs or calling stations, but because they're looking for an opportunity to "play the player."

Cris

kerssens · #7 03-17-2004, 02:42 PM

I agree with that, I call a preflop raiser on the flop to see if they fire at the turn too, its a play I like sometimes if I'm feeling frisky

jwvdcw · #8 03-17-2004, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, there are always some in the crowd...I'm continually amazed at how people would pay to play and have complete disregard for their money and time. I guess some of it depends on where you're coming from....$200 means more to me as a college student than to others...eh

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly...

very first hand of a 200 dollar tourney yesterday. I have notes on this one guy that says he is a complete maniac and will basically raise with anything and call anything.

First hand of the tourney he raises to T200 preflop just to steal the blinds. I put him on A-x, and pushed all in with A-K. He called with Q-9s. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]