clarkmeister will wonder how i can ever beat this game...

[tolbiny]

Playing 10-20 last night, loose mostly passive game going.
I pick up Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the sb, we get four limpers i complete bb raps
flop
Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
yay top pair, no kicker, i love playing those
i check with the intention of figuring out what to do when its my turn again.
It gets checkecd around to the lp player who bets- this means at least a pair, probably queens, possibly A5 or maybe a pocket pair between Q and 5. I raise wanting to knock out any stray As and Ks out there. Folded around to the lp who reraises.
This is the first three bet on the flop i have seen from him tonight (in the last hour). This has got to mean two pair or a set. Q5s is a definate posibility for his hand preflop, but 52 isnt. I dont think he does this with AQ so im looking at 22, 55 or Q5s. I think i should have layed it down right there, but i called, bsically praying for a 6. Turn comes 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check fold, but as i fold i think that i just threw away a legit flush draw. If my read is right then he cant have a heart above my 6 and i just picked up 8 (non fullhouseing) outs. Problem is do i pay him off with if a Q or 6 comes, and will i get paid if my heart comes (i think i will if he has a set, but not two pair). I had just never been in a situation where a draw to a 6 high flush looked so good to me. Any way he flipped over 22 after i mucked.

Hand 2: Same table a round or two later, i pick up red Ks in Lp with four limpers to me, i raise, button cold calls, blinds drop, limpers all come along.
flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
not a good flop for me, checked to me, i bet, all call.
turn 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checked to me, i check, button checks
river T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checked to me, i check, button bets, ep calls, i fold.
good bad or routine?

[Paluka]

hand 1: ugly, just ugly

hand 2: routine

[tolbiny]

i know hand one was ugly, where would you put in the fold?

[Gabe]

before the flop, on the flop, or on the river

[tolbiny]

alright, so i did say that facing the reraise on the flop i should have folded, who goes for the checraise in this situation (remembering that i checked waiting to see what developed and decided on a checkraise when it was checked to the button). My real question i guess is that with my read on the turn should i have considered my 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] a legitimate out to a flush draw? How good of a read do you have to have to consider those 8 outs in a 7bb pot at that point?

[Diplomat]

Tolbiny,

you need to fold the Q6o hand pre-flop. Although there are 4 limpers to you, Q6o is not good enough for a half bet. You are out of position with a dominated hand against several players. Easy fold pre-flop.

Given that you called pre-flop, I'd fold to the re-raise on the flop against all but the most loose aggressive opponents.

-Diplomat

[Diplomat]

I think your thinking on the flop checkraise is fine. Calling the re-raise is the problem.

As for the flushdraw...if you think it is a legit out (and if you can fold confidently on the river if you miss, and think you will gain a bet on the river if you hit), I guess you can call the turn. It's hard to say, I don't see these situations that often.

-Diplomat

[Gabe]

"It's hard to say, I don't see these situations that often."

Maybe if you played Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the SB you would.

[Gabe]

"My real question i guess is that with my read on the turn should i have considered my 6 a legitimate out to a flush draw?"

If your analysis is correct, yes.

If you had said that on the flop you put him on a set, two pair, or a flush draw, it would be a more interesting question.

[Uston]

On the plus side, Clarkmeister may be the only one on the forum who likes the preflop completion in the first hand.