My 2+2 sng suggestion... Leaderboard!

[AleoMagus]

Well I know I haven't been playing lately but that hasn't stopped me from following all the results (and don't think I'm not gonna be back soon). Anyways, I have been thinking about an idea for a while now and I thought I'd bring it up.

Leaderboard!

I'd be really interested in tracking results of these things over a longer time frame. Perhaps this will seem like a bad idea to some. Maybe overly-competitive?
We all know a competitive mentality has no place in a poker tournament right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The only real reason (that I see) why it might not be a good idea is that it might discourage some from playing. Players who don't think they are likely to do good might not enjoy seeing themselves near the bottom of the standings all the time.

So, who thinks it's a good idea?
If it is a good idea, how should it be done?

I think it would be good to separate the two time's so that players who play in both don't get too big an advantage. I also think that it would be best to just track the last ten or twenty at a time (plus maybe a long term standings in addition to the short term)

I would be happy to put these results together each week if you guys did want to try it. What should the points distribution be? How many points for each place? Points for how many places?

Should it be run in specified 10 or twenty week blocks, or should it just be the last ten or twenty at a time. The advantage of a specified block would be that you could name a ten or twenty week champ.

Any thoughts?
Brad S

[AleoMagus]

[Al_Capone_Junior]

OK.

I chose whatever. I chose this solely because of my personal attitude on these SNGs. While I do enjoy them, I don't always play in them. And while I have done reasonably well, with several in the money finishes, I probably wouldn't play enough to be the likely leader.

It's kind of like the KOTZ. I am currently third in standings, but am not certain at all I will play in them every time I have the chance, therefore my standings may very well drop. It's a whimsical thing for me. So whatever. I might play thursday in the limit hold'em event, but I might not. I did win the pot limit event, that might just be enough for me. Sure beating youz mugs is fun, but beating up on the fish is more profitable.

I don't think you have a bad idea here tho, just that I am kinda wishy washy on it.

al

[Stoneii]

I only play Tuesday's games. So far it's

13,5,8,8,8,4,9

Massive profit as you can see [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Sheriff Fatman]

Personally I'm indifferent as to whether this is done or not. However, I believe the sentiment in previous discussions are that they didn't want the SnG's to become another 'official' event as they are primarily for learning/discussion (hence the low buy-in).

Perhaps a ranking system can be devised for distribution by PM or Email on an opt-in basis. That way, it doesn't become 'official' but allows those who are interested to track their progress.

Sheriff

[DrPhysic]

AleoMagus

This is not the first time the idea of keeping score in the SNG games has been brought up. The earliest thread I know of on the subject is “Results from today’s SNG” dated 1/27/04.
For further info, search posts on the subject by thomastem in Jan or Feb.

Here are two posts, one by Tim Perkin and one by myself on that subject:
__________________________________________________ _________________

The idea is to keep these as just a bit of fun. Therefore I think that we should not keep score. However I will obviously post the final standings in each game report.

Plus it is actually quite a lot of work to keep track of all the players, all their aliases, and all their results - different people play each week and if there are more than 18 people then we will (and in the US game they already do) run more than one table.

If somebody is so willing they are more than welcome to put all the results in a spreadsheet or something. I have no problem with you posting it here or putting it on a website or something.

We just didn't really want to turn this into another KotZ where things are very competitive. So basically, play in KotZ if you want super competitive games with scoreboards and leagues etc., and play in these when you just want a casual game which will hopefully be instructive and competitive at the same time.

These are just my thoughts, DrPhysic (who runs the later game) I think thinks the same, but he may correct me....

Tim
__________________________________________________ ____________

Tim is right, I do agree with him. For several reasons:
1. In the responses when we first started the SNG series and since, most players seem to feel that they wanted a friendly social game. The general feeling received from most was "KotZ is for competition".
2. While I have received requests that we keep score, they have come from 2 people that I remember specifically (possibly three). I have 68 people on the mailing list.
3. There may be yet another competitive event available with the advent of KotZ vs SS vs Looney Touns, and with Mike Haven's expressed interest in starting a league.
4. I don't have the time to keep score. However, if the feeling of the group is that you wish to keep score, I e-mailed eMarkM a few days ago, and he was kind enough to share the KotZ scoring system. It tracks position of all entrants, not just the winners. Name difference between Stars and 2+2 would become a problem, as some do not wish to be identified, which of course we respect.

For the time being, until the group indicates differently, I think we should continue with weekly bragging rights, double if you win the afternoon and evening games, triple bragging rights if you win all three.

Doc
__________________________________________________ ____________


Now, it should be understood that Tim and I certainly do not own the SNG series. We will do pretty much what the group wants. I feel the above does reflect the expressed sentiments of the group at the time the SNG series was started.

There are now 88 members on the mailing list. Some do not want playing names known on 2+2 or vice versa and we respect that. Trying to keep new people, and non 2+2 people sorted out and 2+2 names identified in order to keep score would be nearly impossible if it were desirable, of which I for one am not at all convinced. I remain one of the "keep it a fun social event" group.

Doc

[William]

Hi Doc,

Some do not want playing names known on 2+2 or vice versa and we respect that

"keep it a fun social event" group

I think this 2 statements are contradictory and my opinion is that if somebody doesn't want to reveal his identity at 2+2, then he should keep away from the 2+2 SNGs. We are there mostly to socialise (at least that is my impression) and I personally hate those people who want to know everything about you without revealing anything about themselves.

Take care,
William

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I agree with your sentiments here. Have some balls and show your face already. Otherwise you just get listed as "random entrant" anyway.

al

[t_perkin]

Aleo,

if you can come up with a scoring system which takes into account:

Different people playing in different events
Different people playing different numbers of events
Some sort of recognition that the late/early games may have different quality of players in
Some sort of adjustment for the fact that many of the early games (dunno about the late ones?) contain up to 35% non 2+2ers

And those are just problems off the top of my head, there are no doubt more.

If you can come up with a system - feel free to run it.

I am sure you can come up with something, and I expect that the KotZ system would make a reasonable basis for it.

Personally I can't be bothered. I can't even be bothered to write a full game report each week any more. It is impossible to play at the same time, and writing one from hand histories afterwards takes a f*ing long time.

They are fun just the way they are at the moment, personally I have no desire to change them at all.

Tim

[AleoMagus]

hmmmmn

Poll seems (mostly) positive, but not in any overwhelming way. Clearly a lot of apathy out there also.

Truth be told, I had no idea that KOTZ was that competetive. Imagine my surprise when I did a google search on leaderboard points calculation methods to discover the KOTZ webpage. Leaderboard points, statistics, fancy charts, tons of data... everything I want is all there. And here I had pretty much ignored the KOTZ tournaments.

Barring an unlikely flooding of positive votes in the next while, I think I'll forget about this for now and finally get involved with KOTZ instead.

Thanks,
Brad S