heads-up with a trickster...

tpir90036 · #1 03-08-2004, 01:36 AM

good party 15/30 game. lots of soft spots but a decent player is immediately to my left. he is a little too loose IMHO but he plays very well post-flop so it hasn't seemed to catch up to him yet.

folded to me in MP and i raise with Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. tricky player 3-bets, all fold around to me and i cap, villian calls.

flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
well that flop could be better. i bet, villian raises and i just call planning to lead the turn if a blank comes. should i have 3-bet here? did i mention that being out of position sucks??

turn: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])
i bet, villian raises again, i fold like the weak-tight pu$$y that i am.

villian flashes K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and says that he knew he could move me and that he picked up more outs on the turn to boot. both were correct. i couldn't put him on a hand that i was ahead of and certainly didn't think he would 3-bet me with KJ. i thought about calling him down but i don't think doing that would be +EV in the long run. he seemed to respect my raises for the most part and this was the first time we tangled heads-up so i didn't see his fancy move coming.

anyone else have a better line of play here? am i a weak-tight suck or am i just results-oriented pissed becasue he showed me that he moved me? all comments/criticism appreciated....
-tpir

Eric P · #2 03-08-2004, 02:11 AM

check call flop, check raise turn, fold whne 3bet, if he is going to 3 bet you on the turn not much you can do. However he will end up calling here and you have to hope he doesn't hit 13 outs, and since he called you are probably putting him on an ace so you will probably have to check the river, calling might be right if you think he is a big bluffer, also note how your queen will hurt your bankroll this is a tough hand, someone who is good should make a comment

astroglide · #3 03-08-2004, 02:13 AM

the guy is tricky. you knew this, and despite that you gave him the opportunity to move you off your hand on a silver platter. if they guy is too aggressive and you would be inclined to fold to a raise, check and let him bet. your hand is too good vs somebody who goes too far.

builtiz · #4 03-08-2004, 03:08 AM

I think you made a mistake not 3-betting the flop...Clearly this was what tipped your oppenent to think that you would lay down your hand since any reasonable person would 3-bet a-q a-k (or any ace in a shorthanded game)which you told your opp. you didn't have by calling the flop raise...Since you have a reasonable concern that he might have an ace you have a clear decision to make...If you think that he does have it you fold, if you think he is going animal with a draw like he was you decide to simply check and call. You might cost yourself 2 BB this way but if your oppenent is super-tricky I think this play will show a proffit since your oppenent will likely continue to bluff even on the river if he didn't hit. As caro likes to say when you have a medicore marginal hand that's not worth betting you should check. When your oppenent bets you need to re-evaluate everything and if you think that you still have the winning hand but you may fold to a re-raise its better to just call. Still you definetly should have 3 bet the flop to really find out where your at against a trickster. This is usually how I would play it but its definetly a very tough decision here.

WyattErb · #5 03-08-2004, 03:29 AM

Well, since he 3bets preflop, u can very well give him that Ace, i would have played it the same way as u did!
He raised you on the turn again, this means he isnt afraid of u having an Ace, so I think it was a very good laydown!

Gabe · #6 03-08-2004, 05:22 AM

There is something in HPFAP about betting a good hand with no outs on the turn and folding to a raise. It is usually a mistake against a creative player. I think in that book they say: “…against typical players.” What you end up doing is betting to get information from someone who may give you false information. If you had instead played it like a little girl, you save one small bet when you’re beat, and rake an 20 sb pot when you’re good. I’m not saying that check calling all the way was necessarily right in this spot, although it often is against a very aggressive tricky player. How would you have played AJ? Is QQ really that different here, relatively?

From his perspective, from the cards he holds, the board, and the action, he figures you’re a favorite to have KK, QQ, or JJ.

Garland · #7 03-08-2004, 05:38 AM

At the point where he raised the flop, I would either fold right there and then, or just be determined to call him down to the river no matter what. What hand are you going to move him from if you 3-bet him? He'll certainly at least have odds to go for whatever gutshot to the broadway straight he's looking for with his 2 high cards if he doesn't have the A. I guess you don't want to hit your set on the turn!

Garland