Is this an obvious laydown, or do I pay him off????

[novamob]

3/6 wild and loose table full of nits. I make it 2 bets in SB with AcKc. Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Bet flop and get 3 callers. Turn comes 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I bet. Two guys fold, the other raises. I call. River comes 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I check. He bets. I call. He turns over 23off. Should I have known to lay down TPTK when he raised the turn, or do I pay him off on the river?

[37offsuit]

You played the hand fine. I would have been more aggressive, personally and on this hand it would have cost me but in the long run, the wackjob 23o hands will lose it back in spades.

[Joe Tall]

I think you played it fine. You should not be folding TPTK on a board like this as the river can easily improve you hand you have 8 outs vs. 23 to improve on the river.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[tripdad]

i only count 6 outs from turn to improve on river. where are the other 2?

you're right though--no folding here

cheers!

[BugsBunny]

You have 2 A's, 3 K's and 3 8's (an 8 gives you A's over 8's). Total = 8 outs

[SpiderMnkE]

If we feel like we need to improve in this situation, do we call the river bet if we don't improve. Because in my experience a turn raise = strength that tptk isn't going to beat.

[BugsBunny]

It really depends on how you read the opponent. If they play str8 up and are unlikely to raise the turn without beating TPTK then a laydown may be in order. If they're tricky, or think that there A4 (or whatever - actually raising with A4 on that board wouldn't have been a bad play - but you get my point) is going to be good "because I have a pair of A's" then you want to call down.

They could also have something like AQ. So when you run into turn raises re-evaluate, but don't be too quick to laydown. Turn checkraises show even more strength (usually) and I'd laydown faster to a c/r then I would to a raise - but it's still player dependent.

[Joe Tall]

Read this thread.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
3/6 wild and loose table full of nits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? jumbo shrimp?

Check-raise the turn. Don't fold on the river.

[novamob]

If a nit is running me down, I am not comfortable counting a paired board as an out, especially if said nit is on 83, which is quite possible.