Is there any point in betting the best hand?

[DeucesUp]

I've not found what I consider to be a good way of playing these types of hands:

Loose, moderately aggressive low limit game. You get a freebie with crap hand, say 84o in BB, after 4 limpers and the SB completing, 6 to a flop of 832 w/ two hearts.

What's the best way to proceed?


Here's problem #1. It's difficult to put these players on hands because they'll limp with a big range of hands. I would have expected a pre-flop raise from a pocket pair 9 or bigger (usually) and I'll generally give them credit for usually not playing 32, 82 or 83 (sometimes wrong). So I figure I'm behind a set or an 8 with bigger kicker, but there's pretty good chance I've got the best hand (maybe 60-70%).

Here's problem(?) #2: Most of these players will see the turn on this type of board, even if it means paying two bets. At least those with 2 overcards, any pair, a flush draw or any straight draw. A couple of them will also raise here with any pair or even big overcards.

What's the game plan for the rest of the hand?


I'm tempted to just start check-folding this one, because I feel like this type of situation is costing me money. I may have the best hand, but have few outs, none of which are clean (other than runner-runner) and it is oh so easy to be outdrawn.

Obviously it's somewhat player specific, but my usual strategy has been to check, fold if it's two bets by the time it gets back to me (though I frequently find I had the best hand) call if there's an early bet and a couple of callers (I'm starting to fold more often in this situation) and check raise if there's an early bet and it's folded to me (to find out where I'm at) and also check-raise if there's a late bet hoping to knock out a few overcards (doesn't always work).

The turn is even trickier for me if I'm still in. The turn is of course and overcard, say a Ac. What's the best way to proceed now? You can answer for as many different scenarios as you wish, but if you only want to answer one: The flop was checked to button who bet, you CR'ed but still got 2 cold callers plus the button for 4 to the turn. Now what? Does it make any difference if the turn is Qc?

[Georgia Peach]

One option is to play low stake NL poker. When you flop top pair, you can certainly make it very expensive for someone to call.

It's very hard to drive people out with raises or betting in low limit poker. There are tons of folks who can give better advice than me here, but, if you're playing low limits, you've got to have darn near the nuts if you're in a hand because they will call you and call you and call you........

[BugsBunny]

Other than "it depends" I think that if I've gotten this far I bet out on the turn. With the A I fold to a raise. With the Q I would reraise.

Assuming I get a caller (with the A) I check/fold the river.

Flop play I think you're handling it pretty well at the moment. If you can get the pot shorthanded (1 maybe 2 opponents) I think you can play. More than that and check/folding is probably correct.

[DeucesUp]

p.s. If there's a maniac in the game who I can count on for a raise with nothing, I do occasionally lead out and if he's indeed the one to raise I 3-bet it to charge all these thin draws the maximum. But it sure makes me uncomfortable to invest this much money into a very marginal hand. When I do this, I feel pretty well tied to the pot, so when the Ac comes on the turn, I don't feel like I can give up my hand very easily because these players will bet or raise to represent the A whether they have it or not.

Am I being weak by not 3-betting the flop more often since I know many players will call (or even raise) with worse hands and thin draws? If so, should I still be able to throw the hand away on the turn or river if a marginally scary card comes?

[FR_Mainiac]

I will usually just check here. Though you might be the only one with an 8 you are not in a very good position to hold up through the hand. As every card except an 8,7, or 6 and to a small extent 2 and 3 is a bad card for you.

If I'm in the aggressive mood and it's checked through to a button who will bet anything I may check-raise as I might fold the rest of the crowd and get heads up with him and I'll then lead the turn especially if the board pairs. If that doesn't fold him then I'll most probably check call the river.

Other than that I'll check and fold to early action and if it is checked through on the turn I'll bet if the card is lower than 8 and check fold to anything higher.

[LetsRock]

I will rarely bet this hand in a full ring game. It may be best right now, but there is little chance of it still being best by the end of the hand.

You're either going to get overcards and if you don't someone could very well make a straight.

If I had A8, I'd probably bet it, but not 84. I would probably call 1 bet if it gets bet, in hopes that another 8 pops or a 5 gives me an open straight draw, but I'll usually lay it down for a turn bet if I don't get one of my 7 cards on the turn.

It's just not worth paying too much for this garbage.

(Short handed might be a whole different story!)

[DeucesUp]

[ QUOTE ]
It's very hard to drive people out with raises or betting in low limit poker. There are tons of folks who can give better advice than me here, but, if you're playing low limits, you've got to have darn near the nuts if you're in a hand because they will call you and call you and call you........

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh yes, it is of course hard to drive people out of pots. That's why I posted this hand looking for some advice, wondering if perhaps the answer is just to check-and-fold even with what you think is likely the best hand.


But of course this is why low limit is so easy to beat. The same hand that I just described, except instead of me holding 84o, I hold pocket 88 and I get handsomely paid [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I do occasionally dip into the realm of NL as well. I must say this is not a situation I would relish at NL either.

[Lori]

One option is to play low stake NL poker.

If you started to bet this hand in NL you would bust very fast.

Lori

[Georgia Peach]

No argument there that a pair of 8s doesn't last too long, but at least in NL you can make them pay to draw out on you when you hold top pair on the flop.

A 10$ bet versus a .50 bet to some people is a no brainer fold.

[Tosh]

But betting $10 at this pot is a hurrendous bet.