Holy raises on the flop batman!

TBone · #1 02-09-2004, 03:27 AM

Party 3/6, full table.

I'm in big blind w/ 65o, no spades

UTG, UTG + 1, and CO call.

Flop comes 975 2 spades.

I led out, but in retrospect, I think if anything I'd be better off check-raising? Nonetheless, UTG raise, and UTG + 1 re-raises? No reads on either of them. CO calls 3 cold. Your move w/ a gutshot and no flush possibility?

T

WillMagic · #2 02-09-2004, 03:41 AM

Um...check and fold?????

What makes you think you have anything halfway decent here? Third pair, awful kicker and a gutshot?

Time to leave.

Will

BugsBunny · #3 02-09-2004, 03:45 AM

I'd probably fold this one. your getting what 13-2, possibly 14-2 if UTG just calls. But UTG was the initial raiser, so there's a less than remote chance that he'll cap. Your implied odds (which you need here) have been shot to hell. If you hit your gutshot with the flush card you might be dead anyway - so that gives you only 3 clean outs. And even if you hit your out on the turn you might lose on the redraw.

Another 5 might cost you more than it would make you - wouldn't surprise me if there was at least one flush draw + a set already out there - and if the set is there then your 3rd 5 makes them a boat.

Easy fold IMHO.

slavic · #4 02-09-2004, 04:19 AM

small pot, let it go, check and fold

BaronVonCP · #5 02-09-2004, 04:55 AM

I'm gonna join the check and fold team.

Doesn't seem very close.

SpaceAce · #6 02-09-2004, 05:01 AM

Is there really any choice other than folding? Having to call two more bets is screwing up your odds for the inside straight draw as it is. When you factor in the fact that one of your outs is tainted by the CO's probably flush draw, there's just no point in calling. Why do battle over a relatively small pot?

SpaceAce

Catch of the Day · #7 02-09-2004, 05:53 AM

You have the bottom pair w/ no kicker with no flush possibility. You do have that awesome gut shot/openender that gives you...[wait for it!] 10.5:1 and you are drawing to the ignorant end of the straight which sucks. Hmm...4.5:1 for the pot-odds call. If we assume your two pair outs and trips outs are clean then that improves your odds of calling to about 4.1:1 which is quite a lot, but they very easily could not be clean.But again, if anyone of your spade outs hits its changes everything, and there could be a re-draw to a turned spade. I think that you are definitely getting the odds to call with all the outs and the implied odds you would be gettin to make up bets on the turn/river. So yeah I guess I would call the flop and with no improvement on the turn fold, specially if a spade falls...

sfer · #8 02-09-2004, 12:07 PM

Fold. Just curious, why bet out or consider checkraising? Worse than 10 to 1 on the gutshot which gives you the loser end, an A or possibly even K of spades will stick around, and nearly every card to come is an overcard to a 5.

Catch of the Day · #9 02-10-2004, 01:38 AM

I disagree with the general oppinion. I think that you can call here. I am not sure if I did the numbers correct earlier but its seems that with his 4 straight outs, 2 trips outs, and 3 two pair outs he has enough odds to call two bets... But just barely. I think you have to see the turn...

TBone · #10 02-10-2004, 02:06 AM

I agreed w/ the consensus and folded. Turns out the raiser had 9/med kicker, 3 bettor must have had a flush draw. The gutshot did get there, but...I'm not results-oriented.

I re-read the semi-bluffing section of HEPFAP after this hand. I seem to recall other posts here where people have either bet or C/R a gutshot, which I thought was rather aggressive. I now see that my bet was poor due to the 2 spades, only having a 9-high flop, and the fact that there were three others in the hand.

T