Who do min-raises have bad reps?

[Redhot_man]

i notice that alot of you view min raises as "wimpy" and what not. This may be true if you are raising the min with premium hands, but I dont see any problem with throwing a fair share of min raises to throw oponents off guard. I love to mix it up, raise the minimum with JTs from MP. 44 UTG. ATs from LP.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Min raises preflop are for people with no balls and no real understanding of how to play no limit hold'em. That's been my position for a long time, and I have been quite vocal about it, despite having some critics on the subject. This might change some near the end of a tourney when it's down to two or three tho. It also does not count bets after the flop for the most part.

al

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
Min raises preflop are for people with no balls and no real understanding of how to play no limit hold'em. That's been my position for a long time, and I have been quite vocal about it, despite having some critics on the subject. This might change some near the end of a tourney when it's down to two or three tho. It also does not count bets after the flop for the most part.

al

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you please go into more detail on why you feel this way?

If I min raise 66 from LP after 3 limpers "I have no balls and no understanding of the game?
No. I am not min-raising because I lack the guts to mae a larger raise, it is because I dont want to turnt his hand heads-up or SH. It is more profitable in a multiway pot, and is even more profitable in a large multiway pot.

Remember Sklansky- You want to occasionally manipulate the pot size to your advantage.

[bugstud]

In NL, you're looking to break someone for their stack. A min raise will often get a huge raise overtop it, and you can't call it, especially on party, with 66. Just limp and quit trying to do limit raises in NL.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
If I min raise 66 from LP after 3 limpers
...
Remember Sklansky- You want to occasionally manipulate the pot size to your advantage.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please elaborate on how this helps out w/ your 66, especially in short stack min buy-in online games.

[fsuplayer]

There are two reasons i dont min raise.
First, if you have a good, but not great hand (ie. J10s or 44 or KQs) I personally dont want to let people know that I like my hand "a little". I would rather limp in under the radar, and then pounce when I hit my two pair, flush, straight, etc.

The second and more important reason I dont min. raise is that Hold 'Em is a game with too many different flop/board combinations to "raise it up just a little for when I hit a good flop". I think you are throwing your money away if you are attempting to do that.
Those are just my ideas though, let me know what you think.
Fsuplayer

[Acesover8s]

Me, I love min-raisers. Especially those who do it with any hand they play. That way I can limp in with my big hands, and reraise the field after they've built me a pot.

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
There are two reasons i dont min raise.
First, if you have a good, but not great hand (ie. J10s or 44 or KQs) I personally dont want to let people know that I like my hand "a little". I would rather limp in under the radar, and then pounce when I hit my two pair, flush, straight, etc.

The second and more important reason I dont min. raise is that Hold 'Em is a game with too many different flop/board combinations to "raise it up just a little for when I hit a good flop". I think you are throwing your money away if you are attempting to do that.
Those are just my ideas though, let me know what you think.
Fsuplayer

[/ QUOTE ]
Heres the thing though, as long as you are not reraised and forced to fold your hand, you are not losing anything by putting a minimum raise. I also feel that its easier to get paid off when the pot is bigger. For instance, using the eariler example, lets say someone that limped had AQ, when you had 66.
The Flop comes Qh 6s 7s and there is $24 in it.
They will normally bet for atleast $20 and then anyone with a draw gets trapped in the middle when I go all-in.

Remember, we are talking Party fish here. When I play NL I like to have fun. I life to throw in different plays, ect.
i feel like I can out play 95% of the players there post-flop.

[spacemonkey]

Youd don't need to build a pot in no limit. A min preflop raise works better in pot limit.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I also feel that its easier to get paid off when the pot is bigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

The stacks are usually so small that this is rarely necessary in the no-limit game. Pot-limit might be a different story, but maybe not; I have very little experience there, but I suspect it's unnecessary there as well since people seem to actually bet the pot there much more than they bet the pot in the NL game, where underbets are far more common.

Anyway, to reiterate my main point, for the most part the stacks are so small in these games that min-raising for this reason is likely going to be -EV. You'll just be unnecessarily throwing away extra money pre-flop w/ hands you'll just muck on the flop.

I play in a a couple of small blind games (1-2-2 and 5-5) where at times multiple players have $2500+ (or much more) stacks. When that happens, players will often open for $40 or so w/ any two and get multiple callers so there's $200 in the pot pre-flop. That makes sense because otherwise it's much tougher to get someone's $2500 stack in the middle. But in a 2-4 blinds game where most stacks are $200-400, you don't normally need to artificially build the pot pre-flop to get someone's whole stack. I routinely bust people for more than $200 in that game limping in preflop w/ a small pair and flopping set v. TPTK.