Should I have played this hand?

[TheGrifter]

Early stages of 10+1 SnG; 7 left

I'm dealt K J offsuit UTG. I fold and the following action ensues.


> Game # 22,475,557 starting.
> Dealing Hole Cards
> A1B2C345 folded
> -MrClean- folded
> dms7 folded
> odonnell23 called for 30
> mr_mik folded
> loanman9 raised for 45
> cardburner1 called for 30
> odonnell23 called for 30
> Dealing the Flop(4c 4h Kc)
> loanman9 bet for 30
> cardburner1 called for 30
> odonnell23 folded
> Dealing the turn(3h)
> loanman9 bet for 60
> cardburner1 called for 60
> Dealing the river(7s)
> loanman9 bet for 180
> cardburner1 called for 180
> cardburner1 shows Two Pair, Kings over Fours
> loanman9 mucked
> cardburner1 wins 720 with Two Pair, Kings over Fours

Winner had K 10.

I generally fold this hand preflop in early position with less than 4 players left. In this situation I likely would have bet/raised the flop and folded to a large reraise. Who plays this hand and am I being too tight? Thanks.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Easy fold. One point though. Try not to post raw hand histories. Turn it into a narrative, it's a lot easier to follow.

[TheGrifter]

Thanks, that's the answer I was hoping for. And will do on the narrative.

[itsmarty]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm dealt K J offsuit UTG. I fold and the following action ensues.

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, whether or not a play was correct is not affected by the following action.

Barring any reads on the players involved, you wouldn't be far wrong folding KJ-off every time when UTG 7-handed. If you need any convincing, think about the post you'd write when you got married to the flopped King and lost half your stack to the BB limper with A4-suited [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Martin

[TheGrifter]

Thanks for the reply. I just throw the action in there to spice things up, I'm not much of an academic [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]. The main reason I posted this was to make sure that my game was in line with the shrinking table.

Obviously at SOME point it becomes correct to play KJo (HU for example I play it every time.) but just wasn't sure how much I should alter my play when down to 6-7 players.

Thanks for the insight.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I don't understand why you fold this hand. In a tournament you cannot afford to be this tight, limp in with it, I would every time, I would even think about raising with this if I was late posistion.
I am not telling you to play this just because you would have won, I am telling you to play this because this could be the best hand you see for 2-3 rounds. Why wouldn't you play this? In tournament play, generally the river consists of two players, vying for the best hand. It is highly likely you have the best King kicker on the river with this. if a jack comes up on the flop you are way ahead, as long as there was no large preflop raise, anything which would inidcate an over pair. Someone explain why convincingly? for the sake of argument of course.

[ohkanada]

I hope you are joking.

KJo UTG in the muck! Don't get into a habit of playing dominated hands.

Ken Poklitar

[ThaSaltCracka]

I really don't think you can throw this hand away. Now Ken, I am more than open to hear why. Seriously, explain this for me. I am not the type of person who always thinks their right so break it down for me, like I'm a 5 year old [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[TheGrifter]

Well, obviously since I asked for assistance I had my doubts about folding this hand in general, although in a full tourney table early it would be easy for me. My reasons for folding were as follows:

- It is still relatively early and KJ is a "trouble" hand. If I flop a pair I can easily be dominated. How do I know I'm up against K10 and not KQ?

- For the reason above if I do play KJ I do NOT want to play it in a raised pot. In an unraised pot I can have more confidence in KJ, although I still have to look out for cheap two pairs, etc. Therefore, in early position I am often throwing money away to call since I will fold to a raise.

- While you may be right that this is the best hand I'll see for 2-3 rounds I would much rather play a marginal hand in late position than UTG (assuming I do at all). Especially relatively early in a tourney.

Again, those are just my reasons, I could be wrong. Thanks for bringing up another point of view.

[La Brujita]

Salt are you joking or serious about playing this?

This should be an easy fold, basically in nl hold'em unsuited big cards go down in value. They will lose a big pot or win a small pot.

Position is also much more important in nl than limit which adds to the ease of the fold.

There is a concept of implied odds and reverse implied odds that is important re unsuited big cards but am too tired to discuss tonight.