TOP example hand clarification

[Taxman]

I was browsing through TOP today and I came across a hand mentioned on page 42. Player holds AT clubs and the flop comes As Qs 9d. If you are in second position and the first player bets with more players to act behind you, Sklansky recommends a fold. Now in this section he does talk about the effects of having a pf raiser behind you but he does not specify such a condition for this hand. Given that, can someone tell me why raising is a bad play here? I suppose this probably is game specific, but if there are "several" players behind you, chances are the game is not full of sharks. Obviously calling is the worst option. If you raise, you charge draws more, possibly fold marginal hands that could potentially beat you and take the initiative in the hand. Of course this particular board is fairly coordinated and there probably is a decent chance of getting outdrawn if everyone sticks around. So does this make raising a losing play here or just less of a winning play? How would things change if there were a club on the board or if you flopped a gutshot as well?

[Taxman]

Am I an idiot for not seeing things straight here, or is this one of those too close to come up with a deffinitive answer type hands? (and if so why aren't there many opinions?). I'm not questioning the validity of the advice, I'm only seeking clarification concerning the inferiority of other options and the changes caused by slightly different flops.

[rigoletto]

This example was discussed here!

[Eskon]

The hand givin in TOP in a situation scenario.If a different flop had come,the hand MAY be playable(all depends on the situation)

I actually played a hand almost identical to this not long ago ....I was beat right from the get go,and here's why raising didnt work...not much action pre flop, 5 players limp in...I have Ah 10h in second pos. flop comes....As Js 8d. player in fisrt bets.I raise (I had noticed this player was betting any A in this game...so I wanted to see what the reation would be) player in LM pos and 1st pos call, the rest fold the turn comes 5h (junk)player in first fires again now I know he has me beat, I fold, player in LM calls. River comes, more junk (2s)player in 1st bets,LM calls Showdown...player in first shows AJ player in LM wins with pocket 8's.Now if I had known before my raise that player in LM would call..I would have never raised.If I had been in late pos or on the button I would have folded on the flop assuming even if I had the player in first beat,the player in LM may have me beat (which he did) and that is exactly why that scenario is in the book.With those cards in that position..you are at a disadvantage. You dont have the ability to get a read on what cards are out there when you are bet into by the first pos.And there are many ways this hand could have lost after the flop (flush draw,strait draw ect.) and without knowing how many players will stay for the raise you can only make choice off of what you read off the bettor because you dont have any info on the rest of the table.So the pot odds are not in your favor(thus a losing play)

Bye the way, this hand was played before I read TOP.(so dont give me too much crap for it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

[Taxman]

Thanks!

[M.B.E.]

Sklansky reaffirmed this advice recently in this post.

The basic idea is that if you're ahead you win too little and if you're behind you lose too much.