Player and railbird didn't like this

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Well, the car's in the shop so I'm not at work this morning. 2-table 20's on 'Stars aren't filling so I jump into a $10.

We're down to 8 players, blinds are 100/200/a25 about 2 minutes until the blinds double. I'm in 3rd right now with 4035 before posting my ante.

Folded to me in the CO with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I make it 700 to go.

Button hesitates and goes all-in for 1290, blinds fold and it's back to me with 2490 in the pot and 590 to call. I figure this is a big overlay against the range of hands he might have and call.

Board comes (Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])(5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

and I take it down. Railbird from whom we have heard nothing types "lol. ridiculous" Short-stack types "that just isn't right."

Who doesn't call that all-in?

[DougBrennan]

Kurn,

Given the situation you found after your steal attempt (I assume that's what you were doing) I believe you call of 590 to be absolutely correct. The only way I wouldn't call would be if my finger, operating on the "They raised my steal I have to fold" priciple hit the fold button before my brain processed the pot odds.

And if you tried to explain pot-odds to your fans there you'd likely get a lot of "WTF?"

Nicely played last night, by the way.

And finally, I wish my car would break down on a Friday. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

your steal attempt (I assume that's what you were doing)

This may be off topic, but it touches on what I think is a key concept in NL tournament play. There's a saying that goes something like this, "Each poker hand essentially begins as a struggle for the antes."

In the middle stages of a tournament, the purpose of *every* preflop raise I make is to take the chips that are already in the pot. It doesn't matter whether I have AA or 32. I want the blinds. If any action follows my raise, I assess the situation and proceed. How often, or with what range of hands, I raise is going to depend on the dynamics present at the table and how willing I am to play my cards if called. In this case, the blinds both have stacks in the range of mine and they weren't playing too aggressively, so I thought there was a reasonable chance they'd fold, but if one of them called me, I'd be comfortable playing 97s with position after the flop.

Table dynamics are key. I might raise and take the blinds from the SB, then again from the button, and on the very next hand get a better hand than the other two and fold it because the table dynamics dictate that I am now more likely to get played back at.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the range of hands with which I raise varies based on a number of criteria, but regardless of the cards, my purpose when I raise is always the same.

[JDO]

Very interesting post. This quote "Each poker hand essentially begins as a struggle for the antes," really puts pre-flop play into perspective.
I do have a minor question in regard to this statement: In the middle stages of a tournament, the purpose of *every* preflop raise I make is to take the chips that are already in the pot.
Does *every* mean the vast majority? You never raise pre-flop to build a pot?
Just curious and thanks for the post.

[jomatty]

that call is automatic but the PF raise is one i usually dont make. im not being critical as this could be a leak in my game. just curious what others have to say. i usually wait until the blinds increase and some of the self destructing loose players who will automatically call or move in with seemingly anything get weeded out. i want to be invlolved in their self destruction just with a quality hand. i would fold this hand this early. i use a very tight early and agg late strategy in these. others thoughts would be appreciated

GL matty

[CrisBrown]

Hi jomatty,

[ QUOTE ]
i would fold this hand this early.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread his post. This was a two-table SNG -- 18 entrants -- at the final table with 8 left, and 100/200 blinds plus 25 antes. This wasn't "early."

Cris

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

You never raise pre-flop to build a pot?

Never say never, but in NL, building a pot has a trap built in. You may inadvertantly let the pot get so big that it becomes impossible on later streets for you to deny draws the proper odds to call.

[Prickly Pete]

You obviously don't like the raise, but you're right. It's definitely a call for you.

Give em a smiley face. They clearly don't get it. No reason to let them think you do.

[wayabvpar]

Once you made a raise of 700, no way 590 more all in should push you out. Good call. Even better, the other players are gonna have a hard time putting you on a hand the rest of the tournament, which is always +EV.

What did the short stack have? AK? I can see why he was bitter if that is the case, but that is poker!

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

What did the short stack have? AK?

Duh. Left out a key piece of info. Button had A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]