State of the Union Address

[elwoodblues]

Just curious what everyone's opinion of the State of the Union Address was. I thought the president delivered a good speech that was fairly persuasive. I disagreed with most of his positions, but the speech itself was well written.

The high point for me was the liberal applause/standing ovation when Bush began the sentence about key provisions of the Patriot Act expiring soon.

~elwood
p.s. to President Bush the word is NUCLEAR not NUCULAR

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The State of the Union Address is usually a whole lot of fluff. I never watch it. I can pick up the main points reading newspapers. If you ask me, it exists mainly to provide work for journalists.

Last night I chose a SNG with "Clear and Present Danger" on in the background over the GWB.

And don't tell me that it's required in the constitution. All the constitution requires is that the President send a report to Congress on the state of the union. It doesn't mandate all the hoopla. He could fulfill his constitutional duties with an e-mail.

[adios]

Honestly I don't think Bush is a very good speaker. I read the speech didn't see it though. He basically touched on many things without going into a lot of depth like Social Security reform (it needs to be reformed), his education programs, and his prisoner rehabilitation programs to name a few. He was a little more specific about Medicare/Medicaid reform. I think his points about Homeland security were very good ones. Don't think we'll see the Patriot Act in it's current form again though. Liked the part about taxes and discretionary spending although to "fix" the budget deficit problem, entitlements such as Medicare/Medicaid (recent legislation is part of the reform) and Social Security will have to be reformed (I know Social Security is currently running at a surplus).

I got in a heated discussion with wife and daughter about drug testing in schools but he was vague about that too.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
I got in a heated discussion with wife and daughter about drug testing in schools but he was vague about that too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just curious what the position you took was? I have no problem doing drug testing for students involved in extracurricular activities --- mandatory testing based on the fact that you are enrolled is a different issue entirely to me.

[adios]

They basically said that any drug testing was Nazism and stated that kids who are experimenting with pot are far different than hard core drug addicts. I more or less played the devils advocate. I pointed out that in the work place people are screened; that pot users often try and use other drugs; and that drug dealers on school campuses need to be eradicated. I agree that there are nightmare scenarios where the rights of students are trampled. I think there's a place for drug testing in schools but I'm not sure what Bush is proposing exactly.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I have no problem doing drug testing for students involved in extracurricular activities

No offense, but I've always thought this was the silliest idea I ever heard. I would think the students most likely to be involved with drugs would be the ones who don't participate in extracurricular activities.

Of course, I oppose all drug testing in public schools. There's that little thing called the Constitution. 4th & 5th amendments.

[elwoodblues]

I agree that they are the ones least likely to be involved in drug activity, but they are also the ones (depending on the extracurricular activity) that can and do serve as positive role models for other students.

I certainly understand the Constitutional argument; however, extracurricular activities are by their very nature voluntary. That's an important distinction for me.

~elwood

[adios]

I guess my daughter and wife were right (as usual).

[Zeno]

Drug testing is repulsive and intrusive and to institute such policies in the US public school system is inane and counterproductive in that it would, in the long run, lead to ugly consequences far more dangerous than what it purports to cure, in my opinion. Do you yank a sixth-grade girl out of class and demand that she pee in a cup? Eight-grade boys? All High school students? What about teachers, administrators, or the janitor?

Many schools are already pseudo police facilities – Can’t we leave students a small fraction of trust and a little self-respect and dignity? What kind of message does this leave to very young and impressionable children and teenagers? This is viciously insane. But I’m sure many people will support it.


-Zeno

[elwoodblues]

Mandatory drug testing can be very repulsive. I am actually very torn about it. On the one hand, I am generally opposed to this type of state-action --- illegal searches and seizures are a big problem and mandatory drug testing would certainly exacerbate the problem..

On the other hand, I know that something has to be done about the drug problem in this country (particularly in High Schools). Perhaps more education on the adverse consequences is part of the answer (though students tend to view themselves as invincible). I don't know if testing students is the answer (perhaps, as I suggested earlier, targetting your testing to "role model" students is better.) What potential solutions do we have?

Solution 1: mandatory testing of all students -- Constitutional issues; unsure what the result would be if someone tests positive

Solution 2: testing of "some" students (e.g. those involved in extracurricular activities) - same Constitutional issues, though probably not as much so as testing all students. Consequences? (kick them off the team? turn them in to police? etc.)

Solution 3: more education about drugs -- probably not effective

Solution 4: Just say No! --- No.

Solution 5: status quo - there is no problem. I don't buy it. I worked in the dean's office of a high school for a short period of time (affluent suburban school). You would be absolutely shocked about the amount of drugs we found.

Solution 6: Test once there is probable cause (as is done in criminal matters). Who would determine probable cause? Do we want this onus placed on teachers?

Solution 7: Drug sniffing dogs smelling lockers. Really only addresses the issue of kids coming to school with drugs, not kids coming to school stoned. Still raises constitutional questions (though I suspect it would be constitutionally permissible). Parents tend to not like this idea (having a dog walk around seems too prison-like).

Other solutions?