AJ at the AC Tropicana

[mullaney]

You are in early position at the $1/$2 NL table with about $130 in front of you. You limp in with As Jd, two middle position, the button, the small blind and the big all see the flop.

The flop comes Jc, 6d, 4h. It's checked to you, you bet out $20. The button and the small blind call. The turn brings the 8h. The small blind checks. Do you bet or check?

[Paul2432]

Well, the situation you are in, is why you are probably better off folding pre-flop.

If you think you can check it down, I would try to do that. If the button or small blind are aggressive then you need to make a read and go with it. You could be looking at 57 for a made straight, a set, or just a jack with a lower kicker. Betting out, check-calling or check-folding could all be right. If you bet, I would bet around $50.

Sorry that this is not very helpful.

Paul

[bunky9590]

I personally would either fold this preflop or raise to 6.
Yeah you may be looking at 57 or something. I bet like 40. I'd either expect a fold or push in. Everythig i said is very PLAYER dependent. I need to get a read on him. any tells on if the 8 helped them?

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]

The flop comes Jc, 6d, 4h. It's checked to you, you bet out $20. The button and the small blind call. The turn brings the 8h. The small blind checks. Do you bet or check?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why hand reading is so crucial in big bet.

hmm, so you bet $20 into a $12 pot and get called in two places, making it a $72 pot on the turn, you have ~110 left. if you bet the pot and get called, you are pot stuck on the river so the situation you are in seems like a check or push in situation.

if you check and keep it small, with two opponents the odds are you are going to have to make a big call on the river. personally I don't really fear 57 here, you can't wimp out every time there's a straight on board, although it is an unraised pot so you want to be careful.

I would check, call a reasonable button bet, and if it was checked around fold to a overbet from the small blind on the river.

--turnipmonster

[mullaney]

Here's what happened:

I bet out $50, the button called and the small blind raised to $200. I should have abandoned ship, but couldn't seem to release that TPTK. I called all in for $60. The button folded what he said was two pair. The small blind had trip fours. I was drawing dead.

If I had checked, I think it would have been bet and raised before it got back to me and I could have released quite easily. Boo, TPTK!

[ZeroGee]

Wow. Do you all really play so weakly?

The results notwithstanding, you've seen no aggression, have only the smallblind and the button who have limped (and very easily have complete crap cards), and yet you all want to meekly check here, after it's been checked to you?

Sure, everyone knows TPTK is a hand many people go broke with. But that doesn't mean that you just shut down whenever anyone is in a pot with you! You throw out a bet here, and are prepared to lay down if you see significant response. Lots of horrific players will call you with Jack weaker-kicker, or even just a pair of 8s, 6s, or 4s. What kind of flop were you LOOKING for if you played AJ? No one ever wins money by just checking and calling. Aggression is the basic tenet of No-limit. Without aggression, you're just another source of income.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Do you all really play so weakly?

The results notwithstanding, you've seen no aggression, have only the smallblind and the button who have limped (and very easily have complete crap cards), and yet you all want to meekly check here, after it's been checked to you?

Sure, everyone knows TPTK is a hand many people go broke with. But that doesn't mean that you just shut down whenever anyone is in a pot with you! You throw out a bet here, and are prepared to lay down if you see significant response. Lots of horrific players will call you with Jack weaker-kicker, or even just a pair of 8s, 6s, or 4s. What kind of flop were you LOOKING for if you played AJ? No one ever wins money by just checking and calling. Aggression is the basic tenet of No-limit. Without aggression, you're just another source of income.


[/ QUOTE ]

You want to come play in my home game? We'll pay for your gas...

scrub

[Jon Matthews]

Shutting down isn't such a weak play, it's not a raised pot, there's no point going for broke with TPTK in that case.

It would be different if it were a raised pot.

Personally I would have limped preflop, bet slightly less on the flop (just under pot, I don't want to advertise that my hand is vulnerable), bet the turn (again less, since the pot would now be less) and folded to a raise.

It's a good flop for AJ in a raised pot. The turn's not to bad either. In an unraised pot it's terrible. Position dictated a limp and the turn said that the pot wasn't to be, so fold to the raise and wait for a better opportunity.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Do you all really play so weakly?


[/ QUOTE ]

what you're not taking into account here is the stack sizes. with the pot at $72, a reasonable bet leaves our hero with only 40, which he'll be getting (maybe) 5-1 to call on the river. in addition to that, our hero is out of position.

in my opinion, the weak play here would be to bet less than the size of the pot on the turn.

also, the point about having seen no aggression doesn't really hold for most big bet games, where players will frequently call you with a set to trap (which is what happened here). in many ways, a call is a more scary response than a raise.

--turnipmonster

[Matt Flynn]

Preflop if you can manage to do it just fold. Save it for when it's suited. Second best is calling. Fifteenth best is raising.

On the flop your main question is are you committed? Do you want to put your stack in against 5 opponents with a $12 pot and $130 behind? I wouldn't. If you bet, bet $10. Use the bet to get information without committing a lot of money. You can also check. No need to be aggressive with that little pot and all that money sitting behind.

After the flop action, you are very likely beaten in at least one spot. Check the turn for sure and don't feel obligated to call anything on the turn or river.

Wish you'd gotten it on the flop though.

Matt


-- Limit poker is for communists - Natedogg