Creating Situations so you can outplay later

[AQheartbreak]

I guess this is a way of varying your play. What type of plays do you employ for future action? I generally play very tight, and some of the better players at the table seem to notice. What are some moves i can put on so i can get paid off? I don't want to hear the E.P. raise with 76 suited, its no good. I guess im lookin for post flop moves. I do some of the pot building moves (E.g. raising in late preflop with TJ suited, when there are many callers), but i guess I'm lookin for post flop moves when i miss the flop, stuff like that. any help would be great.

[JayKon]

So, you want the benifits of playing Loose/Agressive while you're really playing weak/tight?

Well, perhaps thats a little harsh. However, if your style of play makes a profit, then find things within that style to make moves. If, however, you're not making a profit, then some adjustments are probably necessary.

As to raising with 76s from EP, I do it once, or twice every 10-20 hours of play and it shows a small profit. Besides, everyone knows I'm tight and it just blows the newbies minds.

Jay

[SpaceAce]

Just run the occasional bluff. Once in a while you'll get caught and people will pay you off when you have a real hand.

SpaceAce

[Schneids]

I've occasionally made a fold face up, of a decent hand I'm pretty sure just got turned/rivered/whatever, particularly after I have raised preflop.

There are a few other things to consider with this though:
- Doing so will get more shots taken at you. So, you have to be able to make good reads on the fly and figure out who's taking a shot at you, and who actually has a hand -- so act accordingly.
- Some of the better players might be aware that you are showing this to set up a future move.

It helps set up the mike l type river check raises because it helps get a weak/tight image into everyone's mind. At the same time, it can sometimes work in such a way that it gets your future bets more respect, since they remember that time you were betting when you did actually have a decent hand.

[Nomar]

here is one example I use :

In SB with A - rag suited

flop a 4 flush in a typical LAG 20-40,

there is an EP bet and someone raises,

I like to three bet ocassionally, most of the time anyone that comes for one bet is coming for 3, and you have a reasonable draw,

creating the impression of CRAZY action

[ACPlayer]

I've occasionally made a fold face up, of a decent hand I'm pretty sure just got turned/rivered/whatever, particularly after I have raised preflop.

Why is this helpful?

I would much rather show a good hand that the others expecf to see given my betting than show a biggish fold. I would rather get away with a bluff or semibluff for multiple bets rather than get paid off 1 bet when I have a hand.

So, if the flop comes Ace high in a 3-4 way unraised pot, I will bet the flop and if I have an Ace may show it. Often I dont have the Ace but expect to take the pot because no one else has it given the betting.

[AQheartbreak]

"So, you want the benifits of playing Loose/Agressive while you're really playing weak/tight?"

Believe me, that has run through my mind. I generally don't make tight folds, i dont think at least. I do however folds hands like 2nd pr. top kick to a bet and raise/call (sometimes), but that's not a tight fold? I guess possibly, but that would mean the bettor would have to be bluffing or drawing, along with the raiser/caller, right? Maybe I am playing weak/tight, but you cant call preflop with an AT,AJo,KQ to a raise and re-raise can you, even if someone SEEMS to be full of shi..?
One more thing, J8s, J9s, TJs, who opens for a raise with it, in middle-late? Is this something I've overlooked, cuz i see it happening with hands similar to it.

[JayKon]

[ QUOTE ]
I do however folds hands like 2nd pr. top kick to a bet and raise/call (sometimes), but that's not a tight fold?"

[/ QUOTE ]

I would not normally call that a tight fold.

[ QUOTE ]
but you cant call preflop with an AT,AJo,KQ to a raise and re-raise can you

[/ QUOTE ]

ATo no, AJo maybe, but probably not, KQs you bet I hop two cold.

[ QUOTE ]
J8s, J9s, TJs, who opens for a raise with it, in middle-late?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that J8s is horrible, but I just don't like the hand, not sure why. JTs & J9s on the other hand are around the bottom of what I'll open-raise with from middle-late position. As with everything, it depends on my table image at the moment, what I think someone behind me is going to do and the type of players left to act.

These plays, however, are not gamble it up hands. They are solid playing hands.

Last week, I was in an average to loose 15/30 and had gotten no cards at all for the first hour. As a result an older (and somewhat loose) man two seats to my left clearly thought I was a rock. So, when the action was passed to me on the button I had A8s and raised. The flop came 852 rainbow and the action went: bet, I raise, he 3-bet, I cap. Turn blank: bet, raise, call. River blank: check-bet-call. It was a kicker war, which is what I thought.

Was this loose action? Nope, it was not. Why? Because I had been watching him for an hour and knew what he played, how he bet and what he thought I played. I had him on 87/86/98, maybe two-pair, but I just didn't think so. But more importantly, I beleived he had me on AK.

Did this look like loose action? Well, to 7 of the players at the table (5 for sure) it sure looked that way. The only player that I'm sure followed what was actually going on was a pro sitting on my immediate right.

Hope that helps, it took longer to type in than I thought.

Jay

[ericd]

I understand what you are going throught. However, I think you are looking at it backwards. Use it to your advantage.

I'm making a couple of assumptions:

1. The games you are in are pretty standard. They have the standard mix of players. You are NOT playing at tables filled with a bunch of great players.

2. Your primary objective is to win money. You are NOT interested in proving you are the most clever player anyone at the table ever saw.

That being the case then your tight image can be used to your advantage in a few ways.

1. Stealing the blinds.
2. Stealing small pots that no one seems to want.
3. Reraising someone who thinks you are tight and possibly weak.
4. Putting people on hands.

The first 3 pretty much go together. When you bet most people assume that you must have a strong hand. Most of the time you would but...

Which leads to the last point. If you open with a raise and get several callers and follow up with a bet and still get some callers then other than classic calling stations you are most likely against a pretty good hand.

I hope this is useful.

Eric

[astroglide]

preflop i think small suited connector ep raises and the like are bad moves. i do stuff like raising QJs out of the bb with a few limpers. in addition to being higher ev than raising turds, it provides much-needed cover for preflop value raises out of the blinds.

as for what you can do post-flop, if it's a brick and mortar game occasionally adopt a "SEND IT" attitude for thin value bets. bet your tiny pocket pair into the guy that will call you with ace high, and flip them over as if you have quads.