I like the Bike - narrow flop bet

[slavic]

At the Bike and let me tell you I really like this place. It's not as big as the commerce but I haven't left the place yet with less than a spare 25 BB's, and the players and staff are a lot nicer. Dropping when there is no flop still bothers me, but when I'm in So Cal or No Cal what other choice do you get?

So I'm in a new 4/8 about 4 rounds in. As a side note I couldn't get into a 6/12 and no 10/20 was running. I assume that 10/20 just isn't spread that often, but it would have been nice to have a choice between 6/12 and 20/40. This is your traditional SoCal low limit game, lots of callers few raisers, and plenty of short buyers on the rail in case someone goes bust.

I'm in the CO

UTG open limps, as expected this causes a 4 person limp fest to me in the CO. I have 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and over limp, button calls, sb calls and BB calls. 8 to the flop

(8sb)Flop: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The field checks to me (what no 2?) and I bet on the theory I'm going to call anyway, button folds, SB calls, EP calls, MP calls and MP2 calls.

5 to the Turn(6.5BB)7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checks to MP1 who bets, he likes to bluff a lot and will bet most hands that apear to miss everyone. In several cases he has bet into me on the turn after I showed strenght on the flop or pre-flop. In almost all cases I raised so in this case I guess he hasn't quite got it yet. At this point he likely has a heart draw, and a raise probably doesn't help me since other callers won't fold allowing me to steal on the end. MP2 calls (very weak calling station), I call,SB folds and EP calls (she could play well at times but reverted to a CS when I was in a hand)

River(10.5BB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checks to me I bet and all fold. (hmm guess my heart draw read was right)

Ok so let's talk about the flop bet, would it be better to try for the free card here or is the bet correct. I like the bet just because I like to bet, I think it does good things for me. Like clean up 8's and T's, but is being in such good position passing and hoping for a free card from the button that bad? If I was in EP I would almost always bet it, but does the position change the play?

FYI if I was on the button I think I would have taken the free card.

[Luke]

Hi slavic,

I like your play on all streets except the flop. You really don't have much of a hand right there except for a couple backdoor draws. I'd just check and hope the button checks as well giving you a free card.

As for clearing up your 8 and 10 outs - the idea has some merit but honestly, the pot is small and you are very likely behind. I'd rather bet than call too, but there's only one player left to act behind you so you probably won't be faced with a decision to call.

Besides, don't you think it's a thin call if the button bets and there are a few callers to you?

Luke

[Aces McGee]

If you would've taken the free card on the button, I don't see why you'd bet in the CO -- unless you KNEW the button would bet.

McGee

[Luke]

If I was in EP I would almost always bet it, but does the position change the play?

I found this very interesting. You'd almost always bet this from say, the big blind? Maybe I'm missing something here but I'm check/folding in most spots. I know it's a garbage board that you caught a small piece of but still, there are a bunch of opponents that for the most part aren't going anywhere anytime soon - so why would you bet out here?

[slavic]

Think of it this way, if you had 2 overcards and it was one bet to you would you play on this board? How is my hand any different than 2 overcards, in fact because of my position I'm willing to bet it's a lot better than 2 overcards.

[slavic]

unless you KNEW the button would bet

See that's just it, most buttons will bet here are good portion of the time. Wouldn't it be tragic to have the button bet and the SB raise on you? However if there is a good chance the Button will pass also why not take the pass? I think I have too much of the flop to risk being raised out, but I'm not convinced so if somone can show me a compelling argument to pass I'm all for it. In this case I think it's 60/40 the button bets.

[Lost Wages]

On the flop you are only one check away from a free card so I think your chances of seeing the turn for free outweigh the benifit of betting. Plus you might be raised by the button or checkraised by a blind. If you check and the button bets then you can close the action.

It's not like you can bet the flop and then take the free river card because if you don't improve on the turn a free river isn't likely to do you much good.

Lost Wages

[Lost Wages]

Wouldn't it be tragic to have the button bet and the SB raise on you?

No that would be a relief because then I could fold with a clear conscience. Tragic would be if you bet and the SB checkraised.

Lost Wages

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't it be tragic to have the button bet and the SB raise on you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it be nearly as tragic if you bet and the SB raised?

Maybe I'm missing something. But I'd like to get to the turn cheaply. If I can't do it for one bet, at most, then I don't want to do it at all.

McGee

[slavic]

No that would be a relief because then I could fold with a clear conscience

I don't think this fold would be correct. I think you are correct to call the 2 bets.